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Totally agree. Descending on the persons build, 15-20, maybe even as high as 23 on a man is PMF. 15-20(I’d say closer to 20 for most) is also where a natural male physique can still look impressive in normal fitting clothes without having to wear skin tight tshirts. People underestimate how hard it is for a natural to hold on to muscle mass while cutting down compared to juicemaxxing. I’m not saying there isn’t those 1% out there, but it’s a rarity for sure. You’re either super lean, with less muscle, or you can be a bloatlord with little to no cuts/vasculrity.

People usually lose their shit when I tell them that SDBF((9% or lower) means that someone who’s 6ft tall would only weigh between 150, and 185 at most if they’re completely natural with the latter being that they’ve been training for a consistent amount of time. Social media has really wrecked the minds of most men too, at least in this realm of discussion.