This came up in a conversation with a protestant dispensationalist of sorts.
They were correct to point out, that it is a commonly held Catholic prophecy that the "Jews" will be converted in the End Times:
> The Church Fathers and Saints have consistently upheld this view. An impressive list of authorities includes Tertullian, Origen, St. Hilary, St. Ambrose, St. John Chrysostom, St. Jerome, St. Cyril of Alexandria, St. Gregory the Great, and St. Thomas Aquinas. St. Cyril of Alexandria stated that "towards the end of time, Our Lord Jesus Christ will effect the reconciliation of His former persecutor Israel with Himself."
Hence it was argued that strains of "Nazism" that seek total eradication of the Jews will not be successful.
(I don't know if this was ever "really" a goal of "Nazis": while there is frustration with certain "wayward Jews", or a desire for capital punishment to be applied to certain criminal Jews, frequently I thought the goal for "Natsocs" would be suppression of Jews and or explusion mostly.)
That's all fine and well, although I don't know how this translates to a support of Israel or the current false religion of Judaism that fails to recognize Christ as the Messiah.
Pope St. Pius X stated of Zionism in 1904: "We cannot give approval to this movement. We cannot prevent the Jews from going to Jerusalem — but we could never sanction it."
The traditional Good Friday prayer calls the Jews "pefidious", from the Latin perfidus ("faithless").
Hence Catholics have traditionally opposed Zionism and the false "Judaism" that "Jews" today practice.
(The Vatican 2 revolution has been in our view a non-Catholic breakaway from Catholicism which has opposed these traditional teachings)
So, from a traditional Catholic standpoint, it should seem clear where Catholics stand on these issues (and which is documented in greater depth probably by posters like "CrusaderPepe").
Since presumably also protestants must have often shared these views in the past, I guess my question is: where do protestants come in with their confusion on these issues?
(With "Catholics" today, they probably get false views from subverted leadership, their own personal misunderstanding, or sinful inclinations leading to delusion, presumably?)
I did not grow up with any special leanings on these topics, but they seemed to follow pretty logically from clusters of thoughts like that if Christianity (or Catholicism specifically) claims to be exclusively the "one true religion", then Judaism is a false religion. If people liked "Christendom" or States being Catholic, then we would not be seeking for Zionism or to make States Jewish, but for Israel to be instead a "Christian (Catholic) nation".
So, I was just curious if you have thoughts on this topic, have common dispensationalist false arguments to bring up to debunk, or if you have any comments on what helped you to understand things more clearly on these topics.
The promise that Abraham and his seed would have possession over the promise land forever never applied to Israel, as the seed of Abraham refers to one individual, Jesus Christ. So, Jesus Christ and His children (Christians) are the eternal possessors of the promise land. This eternal possession promise will be fulfilled at Jesus second coming when He and all who believe in Him will rule and reign forever in the new heaven and earth.
Modern-day Israel and Jews have no relation to Biblical Israel and Jews other than they continue the false teachings of the Pharisees and Jews who Jesus called the sons of Satan, and ultimately who killed Christ. They have no special physical DNA that makes them children of Abraham. A look at Biblical Israel's history makes this clear. After Israel was split into two kingdoms (10 tribes in the northern kingdom, 2 in the southern kingdom), the northern kingdom was eventually conquered by the Assyrians, and the remnants were scattered into Europe. The southern kingdom survived so that Jesus could be born as the lion of the tribe of Judah and the final descendant of David, who will reign on his throne eternally. Once Jesus came and fulfilled the necessary prophesies for His first coming, there was no need for the physical tribe of Judah to continue, and as punishment for rejecting and killing the Messiah, they were wiped out as a civilization by the Romans in A.D. 70, and the remnants were taken as slaves to Europe, where they would mix with the native population. As we know, the nations of Europe would collectively go on to colonize the whole world, so Abraham's physical descendants could be anywhere in the world, if being a descendant of Abraham is counted by having just one person in your family tree who was from Israel. No one knows who these people are, though, as all of Israel's historical familial records were lost when Israel was conquered by the Assyrians and Romans. So modern-day Israel is a complete lie, and anyone who believes they're the same as Biblical Israel should be treated as a laughingstock.
The only thing that matters is who a person puts their faith in. Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness, so Christians are the children of Abraham by faith (see Galatians 3).