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This came up in a conversation with a protestant dispensationalist of sorts.

They were correct to point out, that it is a commonly held Catholic prophecy that the "Jews" will be converted in the End Times:

> The Church Fathers and Saints have consistently upheld this view. An impressive list of authorities includes Tertullian, Origen, St. Hilary, St. Ambrose, St. John Chrysostom, St. Jerome, St. Cyril of Alexandria, St. Gregory the Great, and St. Thomas Aquinas. St. Cyril of Alexandria stated that "towards the end of time, Our Lord Jesus Christ will effect the reconciliation of His former persecutor Israel with Himself."

Hence it was argued that strains of "Nazism" that seek total eradication of the Jews will not be successful.

(I don't know if this was ever "really" a goal of "Nazis": while there is frustration with certain "wayward Jews", or a desire for capital punishment to be applied to certain criminal Jews, frequently I thought the goal for "Natsocs" would be suppression of Jews and or explusion mostly.)

That's all fine and well, although I don't know how this translates to a support of Israel or the current false religion of Judaism that fails to recognize Christ as the Messiah.

Pope St. Pius X stated of Zionism in 1904: "We cannot give approval to this movement. We cannot prevent the Jews from going to Jerusalem — but we could never sanction it."

The traditional Good Friday prayer calls the Jews "pefidious", from the Latin perfidus ("faithless").

Hence Catholics have traditionally opposed Zionism and the false "Judaism" that "Jews" today practice.

(The Vatican 2 revolution has been in our view a non-Catholic breakaway from Catholicism which has opposed these traditional teachings)

So, from a traditional Catholic standpoint, it should seem clear where Catholics stand on these issues (and which is documented in greater depth probably by posters like "CrusaderPepe").

Since presumably also protestants must have often shared these views in the past, I guess my question is: where do protestants come in with their confusion on these issues?

(With "Catholics" today, they probably get false views from subverted leadership, their own personal misunderstanding, or sinful inclinations leading to delusion, presumably?)

I did not grow up with any special leanings on these topics, but they seemed to follow pretty logically from clusters of thoughts like that if Christianity (or Catholicism specifically) claims to be exclusively the "one true religion", then Judaism is a false religion. If people liked "Christendom" or States being Catholic, then we would not be seeking for Zionism or to make States Jewish, but for Israel to be instead a "Christian (Catholic) nation".

So, I was just curious if you have thoughts on this topic, have common dispensationalist false arguments to bring up to debunk, or if you have any comments on what helped you to understand things more clearly on these topics.
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8 comments:
TallestSkil on scored.co
16 hours ago 9 points (+0 / -0 / +9Score on mirror )
> where do protestants come in with their confusion on these issues?

There is no confusion. Jews killed Christ and Christians are called to undo their works everywhere. Dispensationalists aren’t Christian.
genesisSOC on scored.co
16 hours ago 5 points (+0 / -0 / +5Score on mirror ) 1 child
Nons, especially jews, cannot and have never been Christian. It is a sin to believe otherwise. Matthew 7:15-20, 15:24.
PM-Melania-feet-pics on scored.co
15 hours ago 3 points (+0 / -0 / +3Score on mirror )
"To the tenth generation" is how much a halfblood should be excluded from the congregation (Deuteronomy 23:2). One drop is 1/4096th. Nuremberg Laws were too lenient by a wide margin.
BreadandWinePilled on scored.co
13 hours ago 1 point (+0 / -0 / +1Score on mirror )
Well, the best way to debunk Dispensationalism is to point out that Cyrus Ingerson Scofield was a known associate of Jews to an almost absurd degree for a non-Jew. Obviously the kikes had him """revise""" the Holy Scriptures to suit their purposes, predominantly by editing in dozens of references to the Jews as a "chosen people" in critical passages. In the original texts and languages, no such claim is ever made by God, nor is there any assertion of special privilege having been afforded to the sons of Abraham except by the """converted""" Jews who wrote the New Testament (e.g. Peter and Saul of Tarsus).

The lesser, but still critically important, method to dispel Dispensationalism is to point out something which typically both Protestants and Pope-worshippers fail to notice: the eschatological "End Times" prophecies weren't actually prophecies- they were Divine warnings. Revelations (among other passages) was divinely commissioned as a warning to Christians on what would happen if they failed in their mission. A conditional statement: "*If* you fail to subjugate evil in the name of Christ throughout the Earth, *then* evil will overcome you to such an extent that the Almighty will have to step in more directly." And in that sense, things like the evacuation of Christians from the Earth amidst severe divine judgements begin to make sense. And if God wishes to screen out a small handful of kikes, put the fear of Himself into them, and have them behave properly as role models for whoever happens to survive the Tribulations, then that is His prerogative. But under NO circumstances should this be construed as a "return to form" wherein kikes just magically receive all these blessings and special privileges just because they're so special. That is a pack of kike lies, and damn anyone who says otherwise.
SugarlessGrub5 on scored.co
11 hours ago 1 point (+0 / -0 / +1Score on mirror )
The key deceptions that dispensationalists believe are that the promises made to Abraham apply to Israel and that Biblical Israel is the same as modern Israel. Both of these beliefs are completely false.

The promise that Abraham and his seed would have possession over the promise land forever never applied to Israel, as the seed of Abraham refers to one individual, Jesus Christ. So, Jesus Christ and His children (Christians) are the eternal possessors of the promise land. This eternal possession promise will be fulfilled at Jesus second coming when He and all who believe in Him will rule and reign forever in the new heaven and earth.

Modern-day Israel and Jews have no relation to Biblical Israel and Jews other than they continue the false teachings of the Pharisees and Jews who Jesus called the sons of Satan, and ultimately who killed Christ. They have no special physical DNA that makes them children of Abraham. A look at Biblical Israel's history makes this clear. After Israel was split into two kingdoms (10 tribes in the northern kingdom, 2 in the southern kingdom), the northern kingdom was eventually conquered by the Assyrians, and the remnants were scattered into Europe. The southern kingdom survived so that Jesus could be born as the lion of the tribe of Judah and the final descendant of David, who will reign on his throne eternally. Once Jesus came and fulfilled the necessary prophesies for His first coming, there was no need for the physical tribe of Judah to continue, and as punishment for rejecting and killing the Messiah, they were wiped out as a civilization by the Romans in A.D. 70, and the remnants were taken as slaves to Europe, where they would mix with the native population. As we know, the nations of Europe would collectively go on to colonize the whole world, so Abraham's physical descendants could be anywhere in the world, if being a descendant of Abraham is counted by having just one person in your family tree who was from Israel. No one knows who these people are, though, as all of Israel's historical familial records were lost when Israel was conquered by the Assyrians and Romans. So modern-day Israel is a complete lie, and anyone who believes they're the same as Biblical Israel should be treated as a laughingstock.

The only thing that matters is who a person puts their faith in. Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness, so Christians are the children of Abraham by faith (see Galatians 3).
PurestEvil on scored.co
13 hours ago 0 points (+0 / -0 )
There is no way to "fix" the jew. Every attempt to do so is doomed to fail, and is therefore naive. It can easily backfire too, because it fuels their victimhood narratives even more.

It's just as nonsensical as trying to turn niggers into rational entities, more human-like. What, are you willing to wipe out 90%+ of niggers so that you can pick the 10% best niggers of the population to reproduce? And do this for ~5-10 generations? Is this really worth it? Killing what, millions of niggers over a span of a century, only to breed smarter niggers? Like some pet project, as if niggers are worth anything anyway. You can raise their average IQ to maybe ~80-90 btw, so wowza, totally worth it.
WeedleTLiar on scored.co
12 hours ago 0 points (+0 / -0 ) 1 child
>With "Catholics" today, they probably get false views from subverted leadership

Honest question: how does God's chosen pope get subverted? Unless he's just a human politician and then the whole hierarchy, catchisms, everything is based on nothing.
bluewhiteandred on scored.co
9 hours ago 0 points (+0 / -0 )
> how does God's chosen pope get subverted?

Essentially the idea is that "Jews" (non-Catholics) became Catholic clergy while being "crypto-Jews" (or pretended to be Catholic publicly while being not Catholic privately) so they then infiltrated the hierarchy until they became priests, then bishops, then cardinals, and then they could elect a "pope".

Just like if Obama was actually born in Kenya, he could be retroactively declared as never having been legally pope, so too these recent papal claimants who claim to have been pope we believe could not have possibly been popes due to their teachings which in spirit contradict past Catholic teachings.

The signal for me was experiencing new "Catholic" teachings that contradicted previous Catholic teaching, as well as people who didn't believe or practice Catholicism who identified as "Catholic", which tipped me and others to research to then come to this conclusion.

(Feel free to follow up with some back and forth if there's more we can discuss)

edit: Possibly related posts

https://scored.co/c/Christianity/p/1ASsUXBHEM/upcoming-sspx-consecrations-argu/c

https://scored.co/c/TraditionalCatholic/p/19BZgJIpz6/calling-for-contributors-on-this/c

https://scored.co/c/Christianity/p/1ASsdwmHHN/sedevacantism-sportsball-analogy/c
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