Christians have fallen victim to a massive lie perpetuated throughout most of the Christian era.
The lie is this: "The Bible clearly teaches that the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are one being".
Meaning, you are OK believing that that is true doctrine, but you can't justify that doctrine with an appeal to the Bible.
(One Being = One Essence = Consubstantial = Homoousis)
This lie is so ridiculously easy to expose that many Trinitarian biblical scholars readily admit it.
In order to expose this lie, let me start by pointing out the 3 and only 3 places in the Bible where it even gets close to this doctrine, and why those passages do NOT mean what they seem to mean in context.
1. The Shema Deuteronomy 6:4: "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:" (KJV) "Hear, O Israel: The Lord is our God, the Lord alone." (NRSVue) "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one." (NIV)
2. Isaiah 43:10 (and surrounding passages of similar effect): "Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me." (NIV, others very similar)
3. John 10:30: "I and the Father are one"
RE the Shema: As you can see, the NRSVUE translates the word "one" as "alone". Why? Because God is distinguishing himself from the other gods mentioned in Deuteronomy. In fact, Deuteronomy 33, especially in light of the Dead Sea Scrolls, describes how El Elyon (The Most High God) has divided the nations, giving them each their own God, and giving Israel to YHWH. Therefore, YHWH and YHWH alone is the God of Israel.
RE Isaiah: Reading Isaiah in context shows (1) That God is explaining that he alone will redeem / save Israel and (2) That they shouldn't be following the other gods. Importantly, the exact phrasing that is used by God saying "I am the only God" is the exact phrasing used to describe how Babylon thinks that they are the bestest city forever. (Isaiah 47:10)
RE the Old Testament / Hebrew: Scholars must contend with Genesis 2:24, which says husbands and wives should "become one flesh". If there ever was a verse teaching homoousis, this is probably it, and it's not describing the relationship between Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
Finally, as far as the Old Testament goes, the Holy Ghost isn't clearly represented as a separate person. The text uses words that suggest it is the breath of God, or a wind, or something like that, rather than a person.
Thus, I close the Old Testament confident that not only is the Holy Ghost not clearly represented as a different person of the Holy Trinity, but it is nowhere ever taught that they are of one essence / consubstantial / homoousis. I think pretty much everyone who reads the Old Testament would agree with me there.
In the New Testament, we contend with John's representation that Jesus said "I and the Father are one". This is easily refuted because in John 17, Jesus clearly states that he wants the disciples to enjoy the same oneness that he experiences with the Father. Rather than citing specific verses, I encourage you to read the whole thing so that you can see for yourself how explicit it is.
Conclusion: The only thing "clear" in the Bible is that the doctrine of the Trinity, specifically, that the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are one being / one essence / consubstantial / homoousis, is NOT taught.
(If you're upset that I didn't mention the Johannine Comma (1 John 5:7-8), you should go look that up first before trying to use it. Not only is it not part of the oldest copies, but it doesn't mean what you think it means in light of John 17.)
PS: The reason why I am bringing this up is because Christianity is under attack, and you guys who are saying these absurd things are creating HUGE vectors of attack. You need NOT defend against these particular attacks! IE, you DON'T HAVE TO JUSTIFY THAT THE BIBLE IS INERRANT BECAUSE IT IS NOT! Defend things that can be defended!
The lie is this: "The Bible clearly teaches that the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are one being".
Meaning, you are OK believing that that is true doctrine, but you can't justify that doctrine with an appeal to the Bible.
(One Being = One Essence = Consubstantial = Homoousis)
This lie is so ridiculously easy to expose that many Trinitarian biblical scholars readily admit it.
In order to expose this lie, let me start by pointing out the 3 and only 3 places in the Bible where it even gets close to this doctrine, and why those passages do NOT mean what they seem to mean in context.
1. The Shema Deuteronomy 6:4: "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:" (KJV) "Hear, O Israel: The Lord is our God, the Lord alone." (NRSVue) "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one." (NIV)
2. Isaiah 43:10 (and surrounding passages of similar effect): "Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me." (NIV, others very similar)
3. John 10:30: "I and the Father are one"
RE the Shema: As you can see, the NRSVUE translates the word "one" as "alone". Why? Because God is distinguishing himself from the other gods mentioned in Deuteronomy. In fact, Deuteronomy 33, especially in light of the Dead Sea Scrolls, describes how El Elyon (The Most High God) has divided the nations, giving them each their own God, and giving Israel to YHWH. Therefore, YHWH and YHWH alone is the God of Israel.
RE Isaiah: Reading Isaiah in context shows (1) That God is explaining that he alone will redeem / save Israel and (2) That they shouldn't be following the other gods. Importantly, the exact phrasing that is used by God saying "I am the only God" is the exact phrasing used to describe how Babylon thinks that they are the bestest city forever. (Isaiah 47:10)
RE the Old Testament / Hebrew: Scholars must contend with Genesis 2:24, which says husbands and wives should "become one flesh". If there ever was a verse teaching homoousis, this is probably it, and it's not describing the relationship between Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
Finally, as far as the Old Testament goes, the Holy Ghost isn't clearly represented as a separate person. The text uses words that suggest it is the breath of God, or a wind, or something like that, rather than a person.
Thus, I close the Old Testament confident that not only is the Holy Ghost not clearly represented as a different person of the Holy Trinity, but it is nowhere ever taught that they are of one essence / consubstantial / homoousis. I think pretty much everyone who reads the Old Testament would agree with me there.
In the New Testament, we contend with John's representation that Jesus said "I and the Father are one". This is easily refuted because in John 17, Jesus clearly states that he wants the disciples to enjoy the same oneness that he experiences with the Father. Rather than citing specific verses, I encourage you to read the whole thing so that you can see for yourself how explicit it is.
Conclusion: The only thing "clear" in the Bible is that the doctrine of the Trinity, specifically, that the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are one being / one essence / consubstantial / homoousis, is NOT taught.
(If you're upset that I didn't mention the Johannine Comma (1 John 5:7-8), you should go look that up first before trying to use it. Not only is it not part of the oldest copies, but it doesn't mean what you think it means in light of John 17.)
PS: The reason why I am bringing this up is because Christianity is under attack, and you guys who are saying these absurd things are creating HUGE vectors of attack. You need NOT defend against these particular attacks! IE, you DON'T HAVE TO JUSTIFY THAT THE BIBLE IS INERRANT BECAUSE IT IS NOT! Defend things that can be defended!
I believe the Trinity falls out from the abominable idea that God and man are not the same species, which is clearly taught in the Bible in multiple ways and multiple places. I can point anyone to several verses that obviously teach this concept.
Once you've adopted the abomination that God and man are separate and can never be united, then you invent things like the Trinity or Islam to try and explain away the plain meaning of the scripture.
Jesus, when he returns, will redeem all those who professed faith on his name. Those who reject him will be destroyed and sent to a form of the Christian hell, where they will be taught about Jesus and given an opportunity to accept him.
The churches that were formed in his name will continue after his Second Coming, and gradually be restored and brought back.
This is what Latter-day Saints actually teach.
The process began in 1820. It is noteworthy that virtually all of the Christian sects have gradually adopted Latter-day Saint doctrines since then. The trend is clear.
What an abominable idea!
Equating the Uncreated, Eternal Creator with a biological, limited mortal species represents the absolute pinnacle of satanic paganism. A "species" implies biology, physical boundaries, and limitations. Entities possessing boundaries lack infinite power. Limited entities equal zero Almighty Gods.
> claims the Bible clearly teaches this concept
Numbers 23:19[a] explicitly outlaws equating the Creator with mortals. The text absolutely destroys the "same species" delusion.
> "process began in 1820"
Replacing ancient monotheism with 19th-century American fanfiction remains pure comedy. The 1820 doctrines literally resurrect the original satanic lie from Genesis 3:5[b], promising godhood to mortals.
True prophets never taught human progression into deities. True prophets pressed foreheads to the dirt in absolute submission to the singular, incomparable Father (Matthew 26:39[c]).
Drop the polytheism brainrot. Bow to the floor and worship the Father alone.
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[a] (Numbers 23:19, King James Version: "God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?")
[b] (Genesis 3:5, King James Version: "For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.")
[c] (Matthew 26:39, King James Version: "And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.")
* Acts 17:28-29
* Genesis 1:26-27
* Matthew 23:9
* Ephesians 4:6
* Galatians 4:6
* Romans 8:15
* Deuteronomy 32:6
* 2 Kings 2:12
* 2 Peter 1:3-4
* Revelation 3:21
Refuting Numbers 23:19: It clearly states that God is not capable of lying or changing his mind, like mortal humans do. He keeps his promises, unlike us.
It does not state that God and man are separate species.
Genesis 3:5 is easily refuted by Genesis 3:22. The serpent did not lie -- we did become like God.
One of the oldest teachings of the church is theosis, a doctrine that has spoken of often by the Church Fathers and still maintained by the Orthodox. In fact, it is now part of the Catholic catechism as they were all but forced to admit it was an early doctrine. It's the protestants who refuse to embrace tradition and the clear meaning of the Bible in this regard, probably because they are consumed by hatred against Joseph Smith, who restored this doctrine.
Openly vindicating Satan? You can't be serious. Genesis 3:22[a] explicitly states mortals gained knowledge of evil, resulting in immediate banishment and death, not literal omnipotence. Satan promised divinity; mortals received corpses.
> "Refuting Numbers 23:19... does not state that God and man are separate"
The text literally states "God is not a man"[b]. Bending explicitly clear verses to fit 1820s American cult doctrines requires massive cognitive dissonance.
> equates Orthodox theosis with Latter-day Saint doctrines
Massive historical ignorance. Orthodox theosis simply means reflecting divine grace, never literally transforming into a co-equal Almighty Creator. Eastern Orthodox councils condem "same species" paganism. Latter-day Saint theology teaches the Creator was once a mortal man on another planet. Such pagan mythology violates fundamental metaphysics.
The Uncreated Creator lacks boundaries, limits, and biology. Mortals possess boundaries, limits, and biology. Blurring the line between Created and Uncreated constitutes literal idolatry.
Drop the satanic psyop. Place forehead on the ground and worship the Uncreated Father alone.
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[a] (Genesis 3:22, King James Version: "And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:")
[b] (Numbers 23:19, King James Version: "God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?")
I am not vindicating the Serpent, I am showing you that "man is become as one of us" according to the text.
Numbers 23:19 doesn't say "God is not a man." It says "God is not a man that does do X" There's a big different. It's like a cop saying "I am not a cop that lies and cheats and steals." It doesn't mean he isn't a cop, it means he's not that sort of cop.
> theosis
Latter-day Saints DO NOT TEACH and HAVE NEVER TAUGHT that we will ever become equal with God. We have always taught that we will become LIKE God.
**Latter-day Saints do not teach that God was a man on another planet.** That is a strange reading of the King Follet Discourse, which, if you know your history at all, is not a verbatim quote from Joseph Smith, as one of the accounts explicitly contradicting that idea.
It is also contrary to our clear doctrines, explicitly taught over the pulpit and found in multiple places in our canon, which is that God is Eternal and has been God from all eternity.
The "clear" part of the King Follet Discourse is that Joseph Smith was saying that THE BIBLE said that God had to take on flesh and give it up to be resurrected, since Christ did it and Christ said he did nothing but what he saw the Father do. Christ was merely showing us, with his life, what the Father did, and what we must do ourselves.
I don't understand Trinitarians who say that God could not take flesh and die and be resurrected, since that is exactly what God did in their theology. It's utterly ridiculous. Did God take on flesh, die, and get resurrected? That's the entire Gospel that Paul was preaching in Galatians. If anyone teaches anything contrary to that, they are not from God!