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It seems to me that all evidence points to Germans having no intention of killing all the jews in the beginning before the war and into the war.

Where cracks start to form is likely mid-war and at the point it started to become apparent that Germany was probably going to lose. I think some of the leadership may have suggested or attempted a desperation move of killing as many jews as they could knowing that they were going to lose. At least then, they'd have saved Europe from the jews they did permanently annihilate. I believe this idea was not unanimously agreed upon nor sanctioned by Hitler himself but was definitely a growing idea that was slightly spoken about but also unspoken among the leadership to keep a sort of "secret group" of hardliners that believed this was the better route to take. Hitler was somewhat aware of these headliners and their views but wasn't in a position to do anything about it even if he wanted too because his political capital mid-war to do anything about it wasn't there.

I think Hitler always intended to deport the jews and wasn't thinking with a mindset of losing the war so in Hitler's mind, the concentration camps were adequate but some of the other leaders doubted Germany's ability to win, like Himmler, & felt that keeping jews in internment camps was taking up too many resources so I believe some of Hitler's officers may have circumvented Hitler's commands to quietly kill jews instead of deport and/or keep them in internment camps. I believe these officers also felt by permanently ending these jews, it ensured despite Germany losing the war, that perhaps it wouldn't becomes judaised (of course, this didn't happen but I can see how one might think this before Germany had lost if you felt the jews were ultimately the problem).

I think the number 6m is pure fiction and the 200,000 seems a lot more reasonable as a number of jews who died. Not all of them would have been killed by Germans intentionally but from starvation and sickness due to a lack of supplies during the war.

Overall, there was definitely some intention of higher up officers to kill all the jews but that sentiment wasn't necessarily shared among all leadership and never directly ordered. In the chaos of the war some high ranking Germans definitely did kill jews intentionally but many also died from sickness and hunger due to a lack of resources. The total number of jews who died is closer to 200,000 instead of 6,000,000.

Thoughts?
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16 comments:
15
TallestSkil on scored.co
9 months ago 15 points (+0 / -0 / +15Score on mirror ) 1 child
>I think some of the leadership may have suggested or attempted a desperation move of killing as many jews as they could knowing that they were going to lose.

Why, then, are there zero documents to this effect, even in encoded messages that were cracked by the Bletchley Park listeners? Why, then, were jews *not* killed en masse, since rope is extremely cheap and all the guards were armed?

>I think Hitler always intended to deport the jews

[Well](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara_Agreement), yeah. [Obviously.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madagascar_Plan)

>I believe some of Hitler's officers may have circumvented Hitler's commands to quietly kill jews instead of deport and/or keep them in internment camps.

So where are the documents to this effect? Where are the graves? Where were the resources used to cremate them?

>Overall, there was definitely some intention of higher up officers to kill all the jews

To what evidence?

>never directly ordered.

Is that why it just didn’t happen at all? Because there were just no orders?

>Thoughts?

You don’t need to apologize for any aspect of the jewish narrative. **To *be* a jew is to be a lie.** They’ve done nothing but lie since the foundation of their ideology. They are the quintessential Cain, doing things (or not doing things) and then lying about having done them. Cursed for eternity for the sin of claiming salvation in damnation.
CaptainTrouble on scored.co
9 months ago 0 points (+0 / -0 ) 1 child
Can you refute Himmler's speech in 1943? The way I interpret it is that he'd basically turn a blind eye if some jews ended up dead, almost encouraging it in as subtle a way as possible. Inferring it was happening to a degree already but not being blunt as to order it because of the fact it would go against Hitler's wishes.
TallestSkil on scored.co
9 months ago 9 points (+0 / -0 / +9Score on mirror ) 1 child
>Can you refute Himmler's speech in 1943?

Can you refute his letter in 1942?

>SS Main Office of Economic Administration Service Group D Concentration Camp
>D III/Az.: 14 n (KL) 12.42 Lg/Wy

>Oranienburg
>28 December 1942
>Regarding: Medical Activities in the Concentration Camps

>SECRET

>To the 1. Camp Doctors of the Concentration Camps Da., Sh. Bu., Neu., Au., Rav., Flo., Lu., Stu., Gr-Ro., Nied., Natz., Hinz., Mor., Herzog., Mau.,

>Copy to Camp Commandants

>In the inclosed a compilation of the current arrivals and departures in all the concentration camps is sent to you for your information. It discloses that out of the 136,000 arrivals about 70,000 died. With such a high rate of death the number of the prisoners can never be brought up to the figure as has been ordered by the Reichsführer of the SS. The 1. camp doctors must use all means at their disposal to reduce essentially this death rate in the various camps. The best doctor in a concentration camp is not the one, who believes that he must stand out for uncalled severity, but the one who by his supervision and exchange keeps the working capacity at the various labor commands at the highest possible level. The camp doctors must supervise more often than in the past the food of the prisoners and, with approval of the administration, submit improvement proposals to the camp commandants. These, however, must not only appear on paper, but must be controlled regularly by the camp doctors. Furthermore, the camp doctors are to see to it that the working conditions at the various labor places are improved as much as possible. To this purpose it will be necessary that the camp doctors inspect the labor places on the ground and convince themselves about the conditions of work.

>**The SS Reichsführer has ordered that the death rate absolutely must be reduced.** For this reason the aforementioned has been ordered and a monthly report on this matter is to be submitted to the Chief of the Department D III. The first report to be submitted on 1 February 1943.

>[Signature illegible]
>Klueder [?]

>SS Brigadeführer and Major General of the Arms

[Nuremberg Trial Document PS-2171, Annex 2. NC&A Red Series, Vol. 4, pp. 833-834.](http://www.loc.gov/rr/frd/Military_Law/pdf/NT_Nazi_Vol-IV.pdf)
CaptainTrouble on scored.co
9 months ago 0 points (+0 / -0 ) 2 children
So you can see how his state of mind may have changed in 1.5 years, right? Germany had lost some key battles and it likely was becoming clear to Himmler, that they weren't going to win. Furthermore, the death rate likely continued to go up not down in the period of time due to even worsening supply-lines. It would make sense to me that Himmler may have concluded that just killing them all made more sense. Had the letter you posted came after his speech, I wouldn't be able to refute it but the timing of the letter, then war efforts, then speech seem to align with a changing sentiment through the experience of the war.
TallestSkil on scored.co
9 months ago 5 points (+0 / -0 / +5Score on mirror ) 1 child
> It would make sense to me that Himmler may have concluded that just killing them all made more sense.

Sane human beings don’t think like that. Mass murder is a jewish invention. The idea of actively and purposefully exterminating an entire race doesn’t enter the minds of anyone but [the genetically insane.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany_Must_Perish!) Even if you want to pretend this happened, you still have the problem of no jews actually being killed. It was *literally* all disease deaths.
deleted 9 months ago 1 point (+0 / -0 / +1Score on mirror ) 1 child
WeedleTLiar on scored.co
9 months ago 3 points (+0 / -0 / +3Score on mirror )
He explicitly states that the purpose of reducing deaths was to have more labour power for the war effort. Why would he give that up if they were losing?

I'll also point out that "kill the Jews" is a Jewish propaganda point; it was never the purpose of the Reich. What the NatSocs were trying to do was to rebuild and restore Germany and the Jews were in the way. If they'd have left when they were told, nobody would have gone looking for them to "save the world". Yes, they hunted them down *in Germany* and other occupied territories because, if they didn't, the Jews would have gone right back to their old tricks.

The point is: there's no evidence, or even a suggestion, that anyone in Germany was thinking about sacrificing even the tiniest chance of winning just to kill Jews.

10
HEXEN on scored.co
9 months ago 10 points (+0 / -0 / +10Score on mirror ) 1 child
Hitler was too nice
deleted 9 months ago 0 points (+0 / -0 )
steele2 on scored.co
9 months ago 6 points (+0 / -0 / +6Score on mirror ) 1 child
>I think some of the leadership may have suggested or attempted a desperation move of killing as many jews as they could knowing that they were going to lose.

There's no evidence of this.

In fact, Allied Forces had cracked the German comms encryption four years before the end of the war and Allied Forces also captured every German camp... and in all of those messages and in all of those documents (reports,official journals, orders) was there even a single HINT of any order to hoIocaust anyone.

>200,000 seems a lot more reasonable as a number of jews who died

Agreed and those died from sickness, wounds from the battlefield and starvation because Allied Forces were attacking German supply lines.

Do you know where the 6m number came from?

It all started during the Nuremberg Trials when Russian wartime gossip about gas chamber showers was submitted as fact and not allowed to be questioned.

Notice that Winston Churchill published his six volumes of The Second World War in 1948 and in those 4,736 pages he didn't mention the jwish hoIocaust. Did he forget???

The original claim was the propaganda of gas chamber showers and ovens at Auschwitz were used to kill four million kikes...

... And that number was quickly inflated to six million when the jewish court also accepted assumptions as proof that Dachau also had the fictional gas chamber showers.

Shortly afterwards, forensic chemical analysis of the bricks, structure, doors and soil from showers from both German prison camps was performed repeatedly because nobody believed the results... which definitively proved neither shower was used to gas anyone.

[Dachau now shows signs to tourists in several languages stating their showers are just normal showers.](https://i.imgur.com/rZHJKNY.jpeg)

Security guards will drag you off the property if you mention those forensic test results at the Auschwitz memorial site.

That's how zero became 4m and then 6m and then 4m and then zero while ((( MSM ))) just kept repeating the hoax.

Within weeks, every kike claimed to have had a grandmother who was personally turned into soap and lampshades and then gassed, burned personally by Hitler.

Jws are an entire race of liars.
WeedleTLiar on scored.co
9 months ago 4 points (+0 / -0 / +4Score on mirror ) 1 child
>In fact, Allied Forces had cracked the German comms encryption four years before the end of the war and Allied Forces also captured every German camp... and in all of those messages and in all of those documents (reports,official journals, orders) was there even a single HINT of any order to hoIocaust anyone.

Came here to say this. If there was an intent to execute prisoners, we would have the orders. Germans are not known for just doing whatever they feel like regardless of what others think, generally, and this is even less likely among the military.

By all (non-Jew) accounts, Germans treated their POWs as well or better than any other power during the war.
steele2 on scored.co
9 months ago 7 points (+0 / -0 / +7Score on mirror )
I also forgot to mention how the photos of guards burying starved prisons in mass graves are fraudulently displayed in every hoIocaust museum and documentary: these photos are from the Great Starvation of 1947 (which happened 2 years after the end of WW2 during a time when Allied Forces had total control over every German prison camp for almost two years. These prisoners starved to death because of punishing Allied sanction. They were murdered by the Allies, not the Germans)...

... Also, if the German prisons had massive crematoriums capable of disposing of millions of kikes then WTF did guards need to take the enormous effort to dig mass graves?

-----------

I desperately want to live to see the entire world, including every normie, refer to the hoIocause as "the hoIohoax" and rightfully recognize kikes as a race of filthy liars that they are.
Yggdrasill on scored.co
9 months ago 5 points (+0 / -0 / +5Score on mirror ) 1 child
David Irving has a lecture on Himmler that I had found on bitchute a while ago, I’m sure you could find it somewhere with “David Irving himmler lecture” but he said that Hitler basically delegated the oversight of the camps to Himmler.

There were some like particular incidents where with the evidence we have you could infer that they probably did have some small scale executions but it wasn’t like a government directive, if any orders did come they would have come from Himmler, not Hitler, but like you mentioned even in the particular incidents it was just live wire officers, not like top level orders. When I say “with the evidence we have” he goes over how, I don’t think there are any documents that actually show direct orders for executions, I think you literally can only just make the case in a tangential manner like “the prisoner count dips in this report after the last one” and stuff like that. And it wasn’t even huge numbers for any given event compared to what we’re told. He went over this one piece of evidence which was basically the most concrete case you could make for Himmler giving an order to execute some prisoners but even that it wasn’t direct proof you had to infer it and it wasn’t conclusive.

If I remember correctly in that lecture Irving gave his own speculative estimate for the total Jews that were killed and I think he had some other sources and kind of ball parked a number and it was more than the Red Cross report, it may have been like 400k or something. That was with like exhaustive research beyond just the regular sources but it was also him being generous like giving them the benefit of the doubt in every case and it still was something like 400k.
CaptainTrouble on scored.co
9 months ago 2 points (+0 / -0 / +2Score on mirror )
If it weren't for Himmler, there would be no holocaust narrative. His speech in 1943 is difficult to refute and indicates to me that Himmler and Hitler may not have necessarily seen eye-to-eye on the matter but he wasn't about to publicly go against Hitler.

It doesn't shock me that Irving speaks specifically to Himmler, he's a key piece in the holocaust narrative.
kalerg_plan on scored.co
9 months ago 4 points (+0 / -0 / +4Score on mirror )
Germany killed a negative number of jews. How is that possible? If the jews were in civilian areas, they would have died in collateral damage and acts of terror like the Dresden bombing as well as other common causes during war like disease and famine. Being away from the front line in camps saved them.
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