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Vlad_The_Impaler on scored.co
1 year ago5 points(+0/-0/+5Score on mirror)2 children
>John 7:13 Howbeit no man spake openly of him for fear of the Jews.
The disciples and Jesus hid, and did not speak openly of Jesus, for fear of THE JEWS. A people apart from their own. An adversarial group. A group they were not a part of. They hid for fear of THE JEWS, not of their own kin.
1 year ago8 points(+0/-0/+8Score on mirror)2 children
What a reach... Jesus and his disciples aren't even present in that verse, in context. The only two participant groups in the scene being described are the Pharisees/Jews looking for Jesus, and the people whispering amongst themselves about Jesus, who fear said Jews. Jesus himself is not being identified with a group on either side of the verse you quoted.
> 2 Samuel 2:4: "Then the men of Judah came to Hebron, and there they anointed David king over the tribe of Judah."
> Matthew 1:1-2: "This is the genealogy of Jesus the Messiah the son of David, the son of Abraham: Abraham was the father of Isaac, Isaac the father of Jacob..."
> Hebrews 7:14
"For it is evident that our Lord was descended from Judah..."
"Muh Israelites." Yeah, there *were* twelve tribes of Israel, which were apparently distinct groups, but the tribe of Judah is the one specifically from which we get ethnic Jews, literally in the name. Jesus is explicitly stated to trace his genealogy through this line.
> Luke 2:21: "On the eighth day, when it was time to circumcise the child, he was named Jesus..."
> Luke 2:41-42: "Every year Jesus’ parents went to Jerusalem for the Festival of the Passover. When he was twelve years old, they went up to the festival, according to the custom."
He was circumcised and celebrated Passover.
> John 4:22: "You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews."
Jesus himself identifying with the Jewish ethnic group.
> 1. John 1:38
"Turning around, Jesus saw them following and asked, 'What do you want?' They said, 'Rabbi' (which means Teacher), 'where are you staying?'"
> 2. John 1:49
"Then Nathanael declared, 'Rabbi, you are the Son of God; you are the king of Israel.'"
> 3. John 3:2
"He came to Jesus at night and said, 'Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him.'"
> 4. Mark 11:21
"Peter remembered and said to Jesus, 'Rabbi, look! The fig tree you cursed has withered!'"
> 5. John 9:2
"His disciples asked Him, 'Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?'"
Rabbi.
> John 4:9
"The Samaritan woman said to Him, ‘How is it that you, a Jew, ask for a drink from me, a woman of Samaria?’"
Presented without comment.
It's all right there, bro. I'm not the schizo for believing what the text plainly says to your face.
That was an amazing response and I greatly enjoyed reading it. No pointless insults, started off with a rebuttal to the previous argument, and has a bunch of verses that plainly support yours. A testament to why it’s important to actually read the Bible.
Typically, it's supposed to be a smuggie gotcha, referring to the belief that Jesus was not a Jew religiously, even if he was racially (which is debatable in itself.)
However, they rarely elaborate this point to people who express your understandable confusion, instead laughing you off in scorn for not knowing their little inside joke.
This is why I always point out the very specific tidbit of Jesus being an *ethnic* Jew, which he was.
Didn't watch the links but I'm very familiar with the argument.
Recommend listening to the Stone Choir: Hebrews, Israelites, and Jews series. It's made for a Christian audience upfront, but still a digestible deep dive on the topic which is where I learned the most about it.
Notably, even they don't deny Jesus being a racial Jew, but still reconcile that with their case.
Which is the only thing I'm advocating for here, because trying to say Jesus wasn't a racial Jew is utter nonsense.
The disciples and Jesus hid, and did not speak openly of Jesus, for fear of THE JEWS. A people apart from their own. An adversarial group. A group they were not a part of. They hid for fear of THE JEWS, not of their own kin.
> 2 Samuel 2:4: "Then the men of Judah came to Hebron, and there they anointed David king over the tribe of Judah."
> Matthew 1:1-2: "This is the genealogy of Jesus the Messiah the son of David, the son of Abraham: Abraham was the father of Isaac, Isaac the father of Jacob..."
> Hebrews 7:14
"For it is evident that our Lord was descended from Judah..."
"Muh Israelites." Yeah, there *were* twelve tribes of Israel, which were apparently distinct groups, but the tribe of Judah is the one specifically from which we get ethnic Jews, literally in the name. Jesus is explicitly stated to trace his genealogy through this line.
> Luke 2:21: "On the eighth day, when it was time to circumcise the child, he was named Jesus..."
> Luke 2:41-42: "Every year Jesus’ parents went to Jerusalem for the Festival of the Passover. When he was twelve years old, they went up to the festival, according to the custom."
He was circumcised and celebrated Passover.
> John 4:22: "You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews."
Jesus himself identifying with the Jewish ethnic group.
> 1. John 1:38
"Turning around, Jesus saw them following and asked, 'What do you want?' They said, 'Rabbi' (which means Teacher), 'where are you staying?'"
> 2. John 1:49
"Then Nathanael declared, 'Rabbi, you are the Son of God; you are the king of Israel.'"
> 3. John 3:2
"He came to Jesus at night and said, 'Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him.'"
> 4. Mark 11:21
"Peter remembered and said to Jesus, 'Rabbi, look! The fig tree you cursed has withered!'"
> 5. John 9:2
"His disciples asked Him, 'Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?'"
Rabbi.
> John 4:9
"The Samaritan woman said to Him, ‘How is it that you, a Jew, ask for a drink from me, a woman of Samaria?’"
Presented without comment.
It's all right there, bro. I'm not the schizo for believing what the text plainly says to your face.
However, they rarely elaborate this point to people who express your understandable confusion, instead laughing you off in scorn for not knowing their little inside joke.
This is why I always point out the very specific tidbit of Jesus being an *ethnic* Jew, which he was.
Recommend listening to the Stone Choir: Hebrews, Israelites, and Jews series. It's made for a Christian audience upfront, but still a digestible deep dive on the topic which is where I learned the most about it.
Notably, even they don't deny Jesus being a racial Jew, but still reconcile that with their case.
Which is the only thing I'm advocating for here, because trying to say Jesus wasn't a racial Jew is utter nonsense.