The Catholic Church is a hostile organization and has been so for AT THE LEAST since before WW2.
New here?
Create an account to submit posts, participate in discussions and chat with people.
You must log in or sign up to comment
16 comments:
Hostile to whom exactly? The Catholic Church has always had enemies, and has a mission to convert all nations and eliminate all competing religions through conversion. So yes, in that sense, the Catholic Church is hostile if you are obstinately against being converted.
I’m not talking a religious stand point here, I’m referring to it’s whole scuffle with the NSDAP. Hell I’ve outright heard rumors the pope was at least complicit in the attempt to kill Hitler. Though that’s not to say I don’t have issues with it’s doctrine, mainly one race da human race shit that even then the papacy was whining about Hitler in relation too, doesn’t do shit with Weimar and then cries when it’s solved.
You are right in that the Pope was complicit with an assassination attempt on Hitler. That part cannot be denied.
Catholics did have a rather odd relationship with the NSDAP.
Some things they liked: the anti-Jew stuff, the anti-Communist stuff, the corporatist economics, the focus on family values, the NSDAP promoting being Christian (Nazis were fine with people being Lutheran or Catholic, though, which is religious indifferentism).
Some things they didn't like: like euthanasia, racial supremacy, assassinating Catholic leaders, silencing other Catholics (both of which broke the Reichskonkordat with the Church), and imprisoning or executing Polish Catholics for political dissent.
It's not like Catholics are pro-Nazi or anti-Nazi, but rather in favor of some Nazi views and are against other Nazi views.
Catholics did have a rather odd relationship with the NSDAP.
Some things they liked: the anti-Jew stuff, the anti-Communist stuff, the corporatist economics, the focus on family values, the NSDAP promoting being Christian (Nazis were fine with people being Lutheran or Catholic, though, which is religious indifferentism).
Some things they didn't like: like euthanasia, racial supremacy, assassinating Catholic leaders, silencing other Catholics (both of which broke the Reichskonkordat with the Church), and imprisoning or executing Polish Catholics for political dissent.
It's not like Catholics are pro-Nazi or anti-Nazi, but rather in favor of some Nazi views and are against other Nazi views.
Racism is good, simple ‘as, You should be for you and yours, as for the rest it’s just politics, what else is one supposed to do with dissidents? As for the ethunasia, IIRC it was for those in horid conditions during when they needed food, so can’t really blame them
It depends what you mean by "racism" (and this is a big problem and why we shouldn't use ambiguous words that the enemy twists).
If you mean that we should love and prefer our own kind, and acknowledge that different races have different strengths, weaknesses, tendencies, and proclivities, then yeah, there's nothing wrong with that.
What Catholicism forbids is saying that one race is universally superior and all other races are inferior to the point that some can be considered subhuman. Catholicism rejects this idea.
Again, the dissidents were dissidents simply for professing what the Church teaches (i.e. anti-euthanasia), so the Church isn't going to be sympathetic to Nazis murdering Catholics for professing the Faith.
If you mean that we should love and prefer our own kind, and acknowledge that different races have different strengths, weaknesses, tendencies, and proclivities, then yeah, there's nothing wrong with that.
What Catholicism forbids is saying that one race is universally superior and all other races are inferior to the point that some can be considered subhuman. Catholicism rejects this idea.
Again, the dissidents were dissidents simply for professing what the Church teaches (i.e. anti-euthanasia), so the Church isn't going to be sympathetic to Nazis murdering Catholics for professing the Faith.
Toast message
Furthermore, the Church didn't seem to have much of a problem with NatSoc when Hitler was alive and immediately afterwards while they were funneling nazis out of occupied territory.
Does the Church condemn capitalism? It is the idolatry of Mammon and far more egregious. Of course not, not in any meaningful way. "Idolatry" (and I use this term sarcastically) of race and blood is Christian. The law and commandments hang on those two, thou shall have no other god except for me, and love THY NEIGHBOR as you love yourself.
We have seen true idolatry of race in the various heathenisms of the past in blatant ancestor worship, conjuring of spirits, divination through specific blood, ect.
And Catholics did have problems with national socialism when Hitler was alive. If you look at the election results, Hitler was mostly voted chancellor by the northern part of Germany, which was Lutheran, and wasn't as popular amongst the southern German Catholics. Regarding Nazi policies, there was a HUGE Catholic pushback against Hitler's Aktion T4 euthanasia policy, for instance. The Nazis assassinated many Catholic action, political, and press leaders during the Night of Long Knives, and imprisoned or assassinated other Catholics later for criticizing this policy, but eventually Catholics were able to put enough pressure on Hitler to get him to at least officially discontinue this policy.
I know people on this board don't like to hear these things, but these are facts.
On the positive side, Hitler was right about the Jews and Communists.
I just spent the last hour reading the two Encyclicals. I found nothing in either directly mentioning the nazi party, Hitler, or anything related, and certainly nothing definitively rebuking them. Funnily, the "summaries" say that these were an overwhelming condemnation of nazism, an appeal for the jews, a defense for jews, ect, but the jews are never once mentioned. It appears to me that the jews and freemasons in the Church propped these two Encyclicals up, falsely portraying them and accurately predicting that nobody would actually read them.
From MIT BRENNENDER SORGE..
>8. Whoever exalts race, or the people, or the State, or a particular form of State, or the depositories of power, or any other fundamental value of the human community - however necessary and honorable be their function in worldly things - whoever raises these notions above their standard value and divinizes them to an idolatrous level, distorts and perverts an order of the world planned and created by God; he is far from the true faith in God and from the concept of life which that faith upholds.
BUT
> 34: No one would think of preventing young Germans establishing a true ethnical community in a noble love of freedom and loyalty to their country.
I saw nothing directly accusing the nazis of anything substantial, aside from maybe the state encroachment into Catholic (private(?)) schools. Seeing what we see today coming out of these supposed Catholic schools (homosexuality, sinfulness, wicked interpretation, dual covenantalism, progressive social ideology), can they really be blamed? It was addressed to the "Venerable Brethren" and seemed to be warning them against some sort of potential schism first, and secondly, maybe against intrigue by the nazis because he VERY BREIFLY speaks of treaties that were liberally interpreted (Reichskonkordat maybe?), but does not implicate the nazi party as far as I can tell.
----------------------
As for Summi Pontificatus, I can find absolutely nothing implicating the Germans or nazis of any wrong. It first talks about regret that Europe is falling into war, equality among all men, a very brief warning about putting state about Christ, around point 80, he says that the Angel of Justice will decide the winner.
>from 83: For true though it is that the evils from which mankind suffers today come in part from economic instability and from the struggle of interests regarding a more equal distribution of the goods which God has given man as a means of sustenance and progress, it is not less true that their root is deeper and more intrinsic, belonging to the sphere of religious belief and moral convictions which have been perverted by the progressive alienation of the peoples from that unity of doctrine, faith, customs and morals which once was promoted by the tireless and beneficent work of the Church.
Looks like he's talking about England here. Continues from this point stressing fidelity to the Christ's Church.
>102. The Church preaches and inculcates obedience and respect for earthly authority which derives from God its whole origin and holds to the teaching of her Divine Master Who said: "Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar's" (Saint Matthew xxii. 21); she has no desire to usurp, and sings in the liturgy: "He takes away no earthly realms who gives us the celestial" (hymn for Feast of Epiphany). She does not suppress human energies but lifts them up to all that is noble and generous and forms characters which do not compromise with conscience. Nor has she who civilizes the nations ever retarded the civil progress of mankind, at which on the contrary she is pleased and glad with a mother's pride. The end of her activity was admirably expressed by the Angels over the cradle of the Word Incarnate, when they sang of glory to God and announced peace to men of good will: "Glory to God in the highest; and on earth peace to men of good will" (Saint Luke ii. 14).
In 106, a country is finally named, a lamentation for Christians suffering in Poland, who remember, are also being eaten up by Bolsheviks.
>The blood of countless human beings, even noncombatants, raises a piteous dirge over a nation such as Our dear Poland, which, for its fidelity to the Church, for its services in the defense of Christian civilization, written in indelible characters in the annals of history, has a right to the generous and brotherly sympathy of the whole world, while it awaits, relying on the powerful intercession of Mary, Help of Christians, the hour of a resurrection in harmony with the principles of justice and true peace.
From here it tells all Christians to do alms and to stay true to the Word of God.
> 114. And you, white legions of children who are so loved and dear to Jesus, when you receive in Holy Communion the Bread of Life, raise up your simple and innocent prayers and unite them with those of the Universal Church. The heart of Jesus, Who loves you, does not resist your suppliant innocence. Pray every one, pray uninterruptedly: "Pray without ceasing" (Thessalonians, v. 10).
----------------------
So yeah, despite what the ridiculous (((summaries))) of these Encyclicals suggested, I found no condemnation of the nazis, or of really anybody, but rather all call for all Christians to either retain their love of the Church or to come to the Church.
https://christtheking.info/far-right-modernism-a-new-kind-of-modernism/
And here is the beginning of a thread I created on Telegram that breaks down Mit Brennender Sorge:
https://t.me/thecatholicstate/137
Pointing and singling out these "excesses" as definitive are nearly akin to a strawman. Yes, there are those who place blood over God. They are incorrect in doing so. However, there are excesses everywhere one may look. Last time I attended a NO Mass a woman was teaching during it.
The Pope is correct in his accusations against those who place blood or state above God, though his accusations could have been levied against the jews, instead of coming to the defense of the jewry in what you and online "summarizers" are referring to as a commendation of socialism in general.
Here's Mussolini saying that the state will not be against the Catholic Church; blood or state is not higher than God,
>The duty of the State does not consist in trying to create a new gospel or other dogmas, nor in overthrowing old gods in order to replace them with others called blood, race, nordicism, and the like. The Fascist State does not consider that its duty requires it to intervene in religious matters, and if does happen, then it is only when religion touches on the political or moral order of the State.
He essentially submitted spiritual all duty to the Church, but says that the state maintains the temporal duty of governance.
The point was that for a CATHOLIC ACTION GROUP we want CATHOLIC-FIRST people to be the leaders and core of the group.
And in our experience, we have had "Nazi-Catholics" attempt to be in the core of our group, and they always, ALWAYS turn it into a NAZI-FIRST GROUP.
And I wrote that article to actually show those people in my group the errors they were falling into and how it was turning our group into something other than a CATHOLIC-FIRST GROUP.
I was admittedly pretty gentle with these guys, who were my friends. Just like I said in the podcast, an article, I gave examples of how one can be a white nationalist, fascist, national socialist, etc. and moderate those ideologies to fit in-line with Catholic teaching.
You know what happened?
ALL. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. Of my so-called "friends" got triggered and turned against me because I DARED to question the syncretization of their political views with Catholicism. They essentially kicked me out of the group I formed.
Why?
Because I merely criticized the non-Catholic parts of their favorite ideology and asked them to moderate those parts to keep the Catholic-first mission of the group.
I am fine with people being nazis, fascists, and white nationalists. But just call yourself that. I may disagree with a few things with you, but we can all cooperate when it comes to naming the Jew and fighting against the Judeo-Masonic Globohomo order.
But don't you DARE come into my CATHOLIC ACTION GROUP and call yourself "Catholic" and then turn my group into a Nazi group because you are Nazi-first and Catholic-second. If you try to do that, then you can stay FAR AWAY from my group because you're no more Catholic than Joe Biden.