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bluewhiteandred on scored.co
2 months ago1 point(+0/-0/+1Score on mirror)1 child
Yeah it's kind of a "no go" zone in the "Catholic" world
Any of the churches connected to the Vatican are neutered in themselves
And then the "traditionalist" groups as the alternatives basically could be unkindly described like "BroNate" does
I'm reminded of Hoppe as describing a lot of lolbertarians:
> In Getting Libertarianism Right (2015, ed. Sean Gabb), Hoppe argues that libertarianism's emphasis on tolerance and non-aggression has drawn in a class he describes as "hedonists, libertines, immoralists, militant enemies of religion, moochers, scamsters, and petty crooks and racketeers" — people who are attracted to libertarianism precisely because of its tolerance toward misfits and outliers, and who then use the movement as a vehicle to escape the discrimination they would normally face in everyday life.
> The same theme appears in Democracy: The God That Failed (2001, ch. 10), where he writes that the libertarian movement "attracted an unusually high number of ... perverse followers" because, in his view, the movement's rejection of all moral and cultural norms made it a natural haven for those who wanted to be free from conventional social sanctions.
"Traditionalism" has given a similar but different "vibe" like this, ultimately with the problem that they have no pope they answer to (the SSPX being in a "half disobedient" place with the rest being "independent" and again not generally answering to "Leo" or some centralized leader)
"Traditionalism" can attract the extra paranoid, extra scrupulous, extra angry (enough to leave the "Novus Ordo"), "extra" other things, and so on... it's kind of like collecting together the outliers of a population.
But sincerely pray God raises up some great champion of the Faith like St. Dominic who combated the Albigensian heresy or some lowly servant like St. Francis of Assisi, to overcome the present state of dissolution (at least on some minimal level).
edit: I got an email response from "BroNate" some years ago and he had expressed a similar sentiment about "traditionalist Catholicism" then, and I think I had a favorable exchange with him as well as other "decent" trads I thought I found seemed to say the same. There's truly a lot of "problematic traditionalists", such that they're really like the general population only are "traditionalist" - probably a lot of the same rate of sins to contend with and such. I guess what I mean to try to clumsily state is that the rate of "challenging" people you might meet also exists in the SSPX, it's just their difficulties might manifest in other ways. "Traditionalism's" a space ripe for being co-opted or tampered with by "enemies", so there are likely a bunch of infiltrators there that are responsible for a lot of these conflicts, while the average person in the pews could be above average in virtue or at least could be average. But the "bad apples" also can divert our attention away from a mass of otherwise "decent" people.
Any of the churches connected to the Vatican are neutered in themselves
And then the "traditionalist" groups as the alternatives basically could be unkindly described like "BroNate" does
I'm reminded of Hoppe as describing a lot of lolbertarians:
> In Getting Libertarianism Right (2015, ed. Sean Gabb), Hoppe argues that libertarianism's emphasis on tolerance and non-aggression has drawn in a class he describes as "hedonists, libertines, immoralists, militant enemies of religion, moochers, scamsters, and petty crooks and racketeers" — people who are attracted to libertarianism precisely because of its tolerance toward misfits and outliers, and who then use the movement as a vehicle to escape the discrimination they would normally face in everyday life.
> The same theme appears in Democracy: The God That Failed (2001, ch. 10), where he writes that the libertarian movement "attracted an unusually high number of ... perverse followers" because, in his view, the movement's rejection of all moral and cultural norms made it a natural haven for those who wanted to be free from conventional social sanctions.
"Traditionalism" has given a similar but different "vibe" like this, ultimately with the problem that they have no pope they answer to (the SSPX being in a "half disobedient" place with the rest being "independent" and again not generally answering to "Leo" or some centralized leader)
"Traditionalism" can attract the extra paranoid, extra scrupulous, extra angry (enough to leave the "Novus Ordo"), "extra" other things, and so on... it's kind of like collecting together the outliers of a population.
But sincerely pray God raises up some great champion of the Faith like St. Dominic who combated the Albigensian heresy or some lowly servant like St. Francis of Assisi, to overcome the present state of dissolution (at least on some minimal level).
edit: I got an email response from "BroNate" some years ago and he had expressed a similar sentiment about "traditionalist Catholicism" then, and I think I had a favorable exchange with him as well as other "decent" trads I thought I found seemed to say the same. There's truly a lot of "problematic traditionalists", such that they're really like the general population only are "traditionalist" - probably a lot of the same rate of sins to contend with and such. I guess what I mean to try to clumsily state is that the rate of "challenging" people you might meet also exists in the SSPX, it's just their difficulties might manifest in other ways. "Traditionalism's" a space ripe for being co-opted or tampered with by "enemies", so there are likely a bunch of infiltrators there that are responsible for a lot of these conflicts, while the average person in the pews could be above average in virtue or at least could be average. But the "bad apples" also can divert our attention away from a mass of otherwise "decent" people.