Brothers, pray for me. I am battling with doubt.
✝️ JESUS ✝️
Thief on the cross, no baptism but Jesus said he would be with Him in Paradise.
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Thank you. Have a blessed day.
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Baptism isn't required for salvation. Jesus states the only way is through him. Accepting him. Ans that all the children are his. So I'm pretty sure you got nothing to worry about.
>What happens to unbaptized children.
People too young to *comprehend* the confession of faith are taken care of, don’t worry. God doesn’t consign them to hell. That’s also why baptism *isn’t* at birth (fuck off, papists), but rather merely a celebratory representation of the coming of age when you *consciously, intelligently choose* to accept Christ and live by His example.
People too young to *comprehend* the confession of faith are taken care of, don’t worry. God doesn’t consign them to hell. That’s also why baptism *isn’t* at birth (fuck off, papists), but rather merely a celebratory representation of the coming of age when you *consciously, intelligently choose* to accept Christ and live by His example.
I view baptisms of babies or very young children moreso a commitment by the congregation to recognize that child as a Christian child of God. And yes I have heard preachers claim that someone has to be old enough to comprehend and understand and give the confession of faith.
When i bring this up in bible studies it really gets people going, lol. Christians are very divided on this topic.
When i bring this up in bible studies it really gets people going, lol. Christians are very divided on this topic.
> Christians are very divided on this topic.
Seems strange, given that the Bible explicitly has Jesus be baptized at 12-14 or some such. Everyone is wrong but the anabaptists.
Seems strange, given that the Bible explicitly has Jesus be baptized at 12-14 or some such. Everyone is wrong but the anabaptists.
Thank you. I swear, the Evil Enemy is getting more and more desperate to turn me away from God. I wasn't enduring these kinds of attacks back when I was an ignorant heathen.
Are there other things going on in your life that are shaking the foundation of your faith?
I doubt that some controversy over the ceremony of baptism in church is alone what shakes the foundation of your faith.
Who in particular told you that unbaptized children are forsaken to hell by God? Who is that person to you?
I doubt that some controversy over the ceremony of baptism in church is alone what shakes the foundation of your faith.
Who in particular told you that unbaptized children are forsaken to hell by God? Who is that person to you?
> Are there other things going on in your life that are shaking the foundation of your faith?
Severe battles with lust (cr0n), wrath (impotence in the face of the world), sloth (laziness) and pride (know-it-all, resting on small laurels). It's like there's demons dancing on my back, trampling and clawing. I failed a 11-day abstinence last week and it has demoralised me. I did run to God right after in prayerful shame.
> Who in particular told you that unbaptized children are forsaken to hell by God?
The thought came to *Me* in a hellish nightmare, and it was on my mind when i woke up today.
> *Who is that person to you?*
My ~~worst~~ third-worst enemy!
Severe battles with lust (cr0n), wrath (impotence in the face of the world), sloth (laziness) and pride (know-it-all, resting on small laurels). It's like there's demons dancing on my back, trampling and clawing. I failed a 11-day abstinence last week and it has demoralised me. I did run to God right after in prayerful shame.
> Who in particular told you that unbaptized children are forsaken to hell by God?
The thought came to *Me* in a hellish nightmare, and it was on my mind when i woke up today.
> *Who is that person to you?*
My ~~worst~~ third-worst enemy!
Not all parts of hell are fire but the belief that the unbaptized are somehow in heaven goes against the nature of original sin, what Jesus said, and hides the evilness of killing children. God also knows more than us including the life of a person and I’ve personally witnessed children be saved from death.
If there were no original sin then there would have been no need for a Covenant and Jesus’ sacrifice.
If there were no original sin then there would have been no need for a Covenant and Jesus’ sacrifice.
So an unbaptized child that dies at any point before age of accountability still just goes to hell?
That doesn't seem right to me.
That doesn't seem right to me.
The Almighty Eternal Creator and Giver of All Life does not change.
No man or woman or scholar or guesser or whoever can tell you what happens with unbaptized children, nor even with baptized children for that matter.
The Potter has no obligation to explain to the clay , and in the last 2000 years The Alimighty Creator has not explained to His 'clay pots' (men) , and is not at all likely to do so now.
No man or woman or scholar or guesser or whoever can tell you what happens with unbaptized children, nor even with baptized children for that matter.
The Potter has no obligation to explain to the clay , and in the last 2000 years The Alimighty Creator has not explained to His 'clay pots' (men) , and is not at all likely to do so now.
No they don't go to hell.
Miscarriage, abortions, stillborn, deaths of a child, any age, before the age of discernment go to heaven. At discernment we all have freewill choice, to choose or reject Christ.
Why would God say a mill stone be around the neck of one who would harm a child, and thrown into the deepest sea. God condemns harm to a child.
The "religions" that teach otherwise don't know God.
They teach fear. Jesus repeatedly said fear not. Trust in God.
Miscarriage, abortions, stillborn, deaths of a child, any age, before the age of discernment go to heaven. At discernment we all have freewill choice, to choose or reject Christ.
Why would God say a mill stone be around the neck of one who would harm a child, and thrown into the deepest sea. God condemns harm to a child.
The "religions" that teach otherwise don't know God.
They teach fear. Jesus repeatedly said fear not. Trust in God.
It gets more complicated than that. There are many Christian priests who argue that baptism as a child DOES NOT ACTUALLY COUNT because the bible says you must be of a right mind. They argue that children have not developed a mature mind to accept Christ and take the baptism. So they will argue that if you were baptized as a child you must be baptized as an adult.
The whole thing gets very complicated and there's verses people often use in these arguments. I find the controversy to be tiring and unproductive
The whole thing gets very complicated and there's verses people often use in these arguments. I find the controversy to be tiring and unproductive
Theres a layer of Hell that is a paradise, called Limbo, theres no suffering there and its a land of eternal bliss. Its hinted at in the Bible and called the Bosom of Abraham, where the Patriarchs and all the other just dead lived before Christ came to open the way to heaven. Its also widely believed that unbaptized children and virtuous pagans go to Limbo, which the Pagans called Elysium and Valhalla. So while good pagans and unbaptized infants do go to Hell, it is not the burning flames of Gehenna or the bottomless darkness of Abaddon, but rather a pleasant realm of beauty where there is no suffering. The only thing they lack is the Beatific Vision, all their other desires and needs are met.
Because it’s bullshit. It all is.
Just focus on what matters, race and ethnicity. Stop getting distracted by stories meant to placate weaker minds.
Just focus on what matters, race and ethnicity. Stop getting distracted by stories meant to placate weaker minds.
Everyone went to hell including Jesus except in Jesus’ case He conquered death and ascended to Heaven with those in Abraham’s Bosom.
But I think people who share your concerns forget who God is. He is just and fair. Those that weren’t baptized would have never been saved. It’s His Will that everyone be saved and God is the Spirit of Truth, therefore everyone who had the chance to be saved has received the opportunity.
It doesn’t mean their death should be tolerated. You should be angry and uncompromising on the life of a child but not at God. Those who would take their life should be shamed and treated as vile creatures. Their actions must always be called out as murder committed by those unfit to partake in society.
But I think people who share your concerns forget who God is. He is just and fair. Those that weren’t baptized would have never been saved. It’s His Will that everyone be saved and God is the Spirit of Truth, therefore everyone who had the chance to be saved has received the opportunity.
It doesn’t mean their death should be tolerated. You should be angry and uncompromising on the life of a child but not at God. Those who would take their life should be shamed and treated as vile creatures. Their actions must always be called out as murder committed by those unfit to partake in society.
I guess ConPro is all about civic nationalism now.
LOOK AT OUR HECKIN' BASTE HALF-JEETERINOOOOOOOOS!
LOOK AT OUR HECKIN' BASTE HALF-JEETERINOOOOOOOOS!
the mental gymnastics priests go through to justify baptism boggles my mind.
John the Baptist said i baptize you with water but He who cometh after me will bless you with the Holy Spirit.
Yet priests still argue you're going to hell if you don't go on stage and let the sadistic priest dunk you in the slimy fish tank.
John the Baptist said i baptize you with water but He who cometh after me will bless you with the Holy Spirit.
Yet priests still argue you're going to hell if you don't go on stage and let the sadistic priest dunk you in the slimy fish tank.
They go to Limbo, its the Elysium and Vallaha of the Pagans,the Hell of the Just spoken of in the Bible, where those who lived lives of virtue, but never knew God, live out eternity free of suffering and in natural bliss. They dont see the Beatific Vision, which is Heaven Proper, but in all other respects they would never realize they werent in Heaven.
I think it's in the realm of mystery but there has been a Catholic belief in the idea of limbo: https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09256a.htm
I guess it's important to note that the idea of limbo was in hell, but because the unbaptized children had not chosen to sin of their own will, they were not thought to be tormented, only to be separated from God (which is still a big deal). But the problem is, they also didn't choose to do good, so it's hard to think heaven is a fit location for them. Baptism is also traditionally thought to remove original sin, so without that it's also thought they are not fit for heaven. But they also did not choose evil, so worse punishments are not fit for them either. So they were thought to have a specific place in hell that wasn't quite the place of bad punishment like we typically associate with hell, but nor was it the paradise of heaven.
Honestly it might simply be best to trust God is in control of the matter, and to only focus on doing what God asks of us (to baptize those we are to baptize, pray for the unbaptized, and so on)
I guess it's important to note that the idea of limbo was in hell, but because the unbaptized children had not chosen to sin of their own will, they were not thought to be tormented, only to be separated from God (which is still a big deal). But the problem is, they also didn't choose to do good, so it's hard to think heaven is a fit location for them. Baptism is also traditionally thought to remove original sin, so without that it's also thought they are not fit for heaven. But they also did not choose evil, so worse punishments are not fit for them either. So they were thought to have a specific place in hell that wasn't quite the place of bad punishment like we typically associate with hell, but nor was it the paradise of heaven.
Honestly it might simply be best to trust God is in control of the matter, and to only focus on doing what God asks of us (to baptize those we are to baptize, pray for the unbaptized, and so on)
How you carry yourself day-to-day in this earthly realm carries a lot more weight on your judgement than your participation in the rituals.
But aren't we called to deny the world? Should our focus not be rather on the point of our death and what comes after? God reigns supreme after all, and we only go before Him Most High once we are reposed. That's the point of the skull motif, isn't it? To remind us that we all end up the same, laid bare before Our Lord.
Thank you, momma bear. God bless you.
> What helped was keeping my Bible next to my bed
i keep a whole stack of theological books next to my bed :^)
First thing i try to do every morning is to pray from my prayer book, and last thing i try to do every evening before going to bed is praying from my prayer book. It's a bit mechanical still but like any habit, my spiritual life and my spiritual habits must be built up first i assume?
I hope that my thoughts and words and prayers and beliefs reach Our Father, and that i do not displease Him overly much.
i keep a whole stack of theological books next to my bed :^)
First thing i try to do every morning is to pray from my prayer book, and last thing i try to do every evening before going to bed is praying from my prayer book. It's a bit mechanical still but like any habit, my spiritual life and my spiritual habits must be built up first i assume?
I hope that my thoughts and words and prayers and beliefs reach Our Father, and that i do not displease Him overly much.
But still.... you can't say it is unjust. God of perfect justice applies justice fairly.
This is the other horror of abortion. Denying babies baptism by sacrificing them to moloch.
I'm not saying they go to hell. I'm saying you need baptism if you want Jesus Christ.
This is the other horror of abortion. Denying babies baptism by sacrificing them to moloch.
I'm not saying they go to hell. I'm saying you need baptism if you want Jesus Christ.
I always lean into this heavily when discussing religion with Christians. Not to undermine their fath, but to encourage them not to be autists about fringe dogma and biblical literalism. In accordance with the strict biblical paradigm, this subject is a wash. Babies go to hell, no question about it. They have the inherited original sin that damns, and no way to receive the faith that delivers from it either through sacrament or intellectual assent.
But that would be so obviously retarded and evil that of course no one takes it seriously. No one except the neurotic sociopath Christians will gleefully accept the notion that babies go to hell, even though it's the most direct conclusion from Christian teaching in a vacuum. I think it's the gateway to realizing that everyone is taking tons of little liberties left and right in their interpretation of the Bible so that it actually works for them, no exceptions.
Best to just focus on the life in front of you, follow the moral law as well as you can, and don't overthink the theological anything, if you even think about it at all.
But that would be so obviously retarded and evil that of course no one takes it seriously. No one except the neurotic sociopath Christians will gleefully accept the notion that babies go to hell, even though it's the most direct conclusion from Christian teaching in a vacuum. I think it's the gateway to realizing that everyone is taking tons of little liberties left and right in their interpretation of the Bible so that it actually works for them, no exceptions.
Best to just focus on the life in front of you, follow the moral law as well as you can, and don't overthink the theological anything, if you even think about it at all.
There is no point to believe that pouring some water on someone has any effect or relevance. It's a total LARP.
But acts and gestures can have ritual, spiritual or symbolic meaning and significance.
Only for those who care. What significance does it have for a cat or dog? What significance does it have for a person who doesn't know it? What significance does it have for a person who doesn't know it happened? None. Rituals and symbols only have meaning for those who care.
It all happens in the mind of people - the physical reality is completely unaffected. It's not like these things could be tested and measured in reality. And "spiritual" is code word for "psychological." You could simply start saying you've been baptized, and people would simply believe it. Or your parents could lie to you and say you've been baptized, and you'd believe it.
There is a the plane of illusion, and people indulge too much in it. The world is filled with ridiculous illusions. Money is possibly one of the most powerful ones. Judges being treated like oh-so neutral, noble entities of justice is another. There are words like "education", "racist", "fascist", "inclusivity", "diversity", "equality", "vote", "democracy" - all based on linguistic games.
Education is primarily indoctrination plus trivial knowledge, "racism" is an ideological label, "fascism" is just "build your own bad guy ideology" bullshit, "equality" is a myth that obviously violates reality, "democracy" is a way to pacify the strong and just and empower the corrupt and weak.
I am tired of ALL illusions, and when I say people cannot even imagine how much of it exists, how much we participate in them, down to our everyday life, I mean it. Just think of pedestrian lights and how people just stand there like sheep waiting for it to turn green, even if no car is in sight. It ranges from little things to big things.
It all happens in the mind of people - the physical reality is completely unaffected. It's not like these things could be tested and measured in reality. And "spiritual" is code word for "psychological." You could simply start saying you've been baptized, and people would simply believe it. Or your parents could lie to you and say you've been baptized, and you'd believe it.
There is a the plane of illusion, and people indulge too much in it. The world is filled with ridiculous illusions. Money is possibly one of the most powerful ones. Judges being treated like oh-so neutral, noble entities of justice is another. There are words like "education", "racist", "fascist", "inclusivity", "diversity", "equality", "vote", "democracy" - all based on linguistic games.
Education is primarily indoctrination plus trivial knowledge, "racism" is an ideological label, "fascism" is just "build your own bad guy ideology" bullshit, "equality" is a myth that obviously violates reality, "democracy" is a way to pacify the strong and just and empower the corrupt and weak.
I am tired of ALL illusions, and when I say people cannot even imagine how much of it exists, how much we participate in them, down to our everyday life, I mean it. Just think of pedestrian lights and how people just stand there like sheep waiting for it to turn green, even if no car is in sight. It ranges from little things to big things.
>Only for those who care.
When someone who wants to profess faith in Jesus Christ gets baptized, it is usually only in the audience of those who do care. Family, close friends, and supportive Christian members of that church who welcome their Christian numbers increasing and the Christian fellowship and support.
To anyone outside of that sphere, it means little to nothing.
>It all happens in the mind of people
I am not sure if it only occurs in the mind, but, Yes, it has to happen in the mind at some point.
Anyways your answer is really good.
I find virtue through lots of my work. I like it when someone envisions something and then I help them build it. I like that part of construction work. Here's the blueprint. We spent a lot of time designing it. Now build it. If i were to do college over again i would focus more on engineering.
As far as baptism, i see it as an oath of faith and taking oath around family and friends and community who you trust is actually a great thing. But few really understand what community is today. And any time your town grows too large and too many and too many new faces you lose sense of community. And when you don't know most of the people in your own town, you can't hold each other accountable. And when you can't hold each other accountable then society down spirals rapidly with jews infesting all positions of power.
When someone who wants to profess faith in Jesus Christ gets baptized, it is usually only in the audience of those who do care. Family, close friends, and supportive Christian members of that church who welcome their Christian numbers increasing and the Christian fellowship and support.
To anyone outside of that sphere, it means little to nothing.
>It all happens in the mind of people
I am not sure if it only occurs in the mind, but, Yes, it has to happen in the mind at some point.
Anyways your answer is really good.
I find virtue through lots of my work. I like it when someone envisions something and then I help them build it. I like that part of construction work. Here's the blueprint. We spent a lot of time designing it. Now build it. If i were to do college over again i would focus more on engineering.
As far as baptism, i see it as an oath of faith and taking oath around family and friends and community who you trust is actually a great thing. But few really understand what community is today. And any time your town grows too large and too many and too many new faces you lose sense of community. And when you don't know most of the people in your own town, you can't hold each other accountable. And when you can't hold each other accountable then society down spirals rapidly with jews infesting all positions of power.
> As far as baptism, i see it as an oath of faith and taking oath around family and friends and community who you trust is actually a great thing.
As such, it makes more sense. In that case it's more than just words, it's something people can appreciate as something that has multiple witnesses and goes back to trust and keeping word. Trust is something that has a higher value - it's a behavioral pattern in which expectations can reliably be made about a person.
In that case the ritual is really just symbolic, that is meant to reinforce the expression with tangible actions, instead of just saying words. Actions speak louder than words.
I thought more about babies or children being baptized, which negates the idea of the person doing it as a oath of faith. It's essentially about the parents doing it with their children as proxy. And I was primarily referring to OP's concerns. This is just one rather superficial thing a person can do, but there is also the concept of being a true believer.
Doing the thing well trumps superficialities every time.
> And when you can't hold each other accountable then society down spirals rapidly with jews infesting all positions of power.
That is indeed the process, and it's a little sad. The more people are around you, the less you care about them. There is the process of cities becoming politically left leaning, and it's hard to pinpoint why. But this could be one reason.
As such, it makes more sense. In that case it's more than just words, it's something people can appreciate as something that has multiple witnesses and goes back to trust and keeping word. Trust is something that has a higher value - it's a behavioral pattern in which expectations can reliably be made about a person.
In that case the ritual is really just symbolic, that is meant to reinforce the expression with tangible actions, instead of just saying words. Actions speak louder than words.
I thought more about babies or children being baptized, which negates the idea of the person doing it as a oath of faith. It's essentially about the parents doing it with their children as proxy. And I was primarily referring to OP's concerns. This is just one rather superficial thing a person can do, but there is also the concept of being a true believer.
Doing the thing well trumps superficialities every time.
> And when you can't hold each other accountable then society down spirals rapidly with jews infesting all positions of power.
That is indeed the process, and it's a little sad. The more people are around you, the less you care about them. There is the process of cities becoming politically left leaning, and it's hard to pinpoint why. But this could be one reason.
>That is indeed the process, and it's a little sad. The more people are around you, the less you care about them. There is the process of cities becoming politically left leaning, and it's hard to pinpoint why. But this could be one reason.
Well it is sort of the anti-thesis to multi-culturalism. The less people you know in the community, the less you're able to hold each other accountable. Church members can hold each other accountable to not sin and live by the preachings inside that church. But then you introduces synagogues and mosques into the town and now what? The neighbors all are going to get along and have the same standards? At that point you cannot take oaths to kikes or mudslime, and you can't trust these people to be a jury of your peers. At that point society collapses. A community needs to be unified in strong ways. Faith/Religion is one way. My argument is that multi-culturalism is designed to destroy the unification and moral standards of a society. neighborhoods under one jurisdiction become segregated, balkanized, and at war over politics and standards. That's why the idea of an "oath" or allegiance is so foreign to people today. They hate their own neighbors and want a taller fence.
Also, i challenge the manner in which we transact real estate and build communities. What gives anyone the right to just move into your neighborhood just because they paid the seller price? Should they not be vetted? I don't think white nationalists should allow this system when they build communities and neighborhoods. No one should be allowed to infiltrate without being vetted by the people who already live there. In the past this vetting was trusted to be done by national authorities at some port like Ellis Island. But today each and every single neighborhood should be disqualifying people from wanting to move in. I suppose maybe an HOA contract could be designed so that White folks could safeguard their communities from niggers or spics or zipperheads from buying houses and moving in.
Well it is sort of the anti-thesis to multi-culturalism. The less people you know in the community, the less you're able to hold each other accountable. Church members can hold each other accountable to not sin and live by the preachings inside that church. But then you introduces synagogues and mosques into the town and now what? The neighbors all are going to get along and have the same standards? At that point you cannot take oaths to kikes or mudslime, and you can't trust these people to be a jury of your peers. At that point society collapses. A community needs to be unified in strong ways. Faith/Religion is one way. My argument is that multi-culturalism is designed to destroy the unification and moral standards of a society. neighborhoods under one jurisdiction become segregated, balkanized, and at war over politics and standards. That's why the idea of an "oath" or allegiance is so foreign to people today. They hate their own neighbors and want a taller fence.
Also, i challenge the manner in which we transact real estate and build communities. What gives anyone the right to just move into your neighborhood just because they paid the seller price? Should they not be vetted? I don't think white nationalists should allow this system when they build communities and neighborhoods. No one should be allowed to infiltrate without being vetted by the people who already live there. In the past this vetting was trusted to be done by national authorities at some port like Ellis Island. But today each and every single neighborhood should be disqualifying people from wanting to move in. I suppose maybe an HOA contract could be designed so that White folks could safeguard their communities from niggers or spics or zipperheads from buying houses and moving in.
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