I bounced around through NO Catholic, Protestant and the Orthodox Churches for a while before almost entirely giving up on established Christianity. Some were better than others, but I had not really come across one that struck me as being significant in any way. The modern Protestants are pretty much just a Jesus fan club, usually ripe with theological inaccuracies. The Orthodox, as I have said before, are still very mad about the schism. The Greek Orthodox Church seemed to me to be more of a novelty. It was interesting, but their mass did not seem legitimate in my heart. Furthermore.. They had a woman speak during the mass.
I finally managed to go to a Latin Mass and it was like stepping back in time. 80% of the women were wearing head coverings and dresses. The Mass took place in a musty 150 year old church in the middle of farm country, decorated much more humbly than the Orthodox, but actually appearing as a church unlike the Protestants'. The place was packed with babies. Some of these people had 5 or more kids. I couldn't understand a word the Priest was saying. Not a single one of these people was fat. Some were overweight but not fat.
The mass itself actually resonated with my heart and I took the Eucharist for the first time in my free thinking life.. instead of just pocketing it like I've done at the other churches. It sort of made me ill for some reason so idk if I'll take it again but I tried.
7/10 experience, would recommend.
Better than nothing.
>And it’s not a commandment
Paul:
But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. 4Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head. 5But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.
Of course he later says: Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered? 14Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him? 15But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.
And then
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. 35And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. 36What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only? 37__If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.__
So yes, what Paul says are commandments of the Lord unless he specifically states otherwise, which he does.
>Second of all, the commandment against women speaking was literally because in Roman times...
Ok so it's a commandment that they not speak in Church. Got it.
>it seems you care more about the aesthetics of the church and the people attending it than you do about the underlying theology and message at hand
Utterly incorrect. The only reason I go to the Catholics, who I think border on idolatry at the best of times, is because their foundational theological doctrine is correct, whereas the Protestants are incorrect in many cases. As for God living in the Alter, the Eucharist being the literal flesh of Christ, relics, and so forth.. These things remain mysteries to me.
As for the aesthetics and the people.. The people are the Church. These are the members of Christ. You can judge the character of anything by the people it compels and the imagery that it displays.
The Elect are the Church. They are not bound by rigid institutions. Their names are written in the Book of Life. If you think institutions have anything to do with it you’re not a Christian. You’re a Jew. Worse, you’re of the Pharisee class. There is no difference between Pharisaic Judaism and Catholicism. It is rife with degeneracy.
Dude, why are you also ignoring Acts, which clearly states that Priscilla taught Apollos? And you are also dead set in the letter of the law which kills. Not the spirit of the law which leads to life. I don’t care if you make it seem like a commandment. Jesus sought to free people from ritual bonds such as the Judaic interpretation of the Old Testament. It was not written by a bunch of sanctimonious, genuflecting Jews. You are a kike. Get out of this goddamn chat or maybe you are sadly influenced by them.
Before you hound me about sources:
Acts 18:24-28:
24 And a certain Judahite named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man, and mighty in the scriptures, came to Ephesus.
25 This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John.
26 And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.
27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:
28 For he mightily convinced the Jews, and that publicly, shewing by the scriptures that Jesus was Christ.
If you genuinely believe it’s impossible for women to speak in a divine way, then you have to deny not only the Epistles, but also the Old Testament, since there were several prophetesses. You are using the scripture for your sick chauvinistic intentions. I have no ulterior motives. You do. You damn pharisee. Go back to the Synagogue of Satan.
> I have no ulterior motives. You do.
Classic projection. My motive was simply telling people that I enjoyed what Latin Mass had to offer. You're clearly anti-Catholic and triggered because I said women were covering their head.
Also you have completely reckoned me wrong. I do not think administrations, rituals or institutions have much to do with God. However they are the premier methods of maintaining obedience to Him, hence why the Mosaic law ever existed.
I have never said that women can not teach or have wisdom to offer. Judith is one of my favorite books. Their place to do so is not in church.
>And you are also dead set in the letter of the law which kills. Not the spirit of the law which leads to life.
Utterly incorrect. In fact you couldn't be more incorrect if you tried.
Lol I admire your enthusiasm about insults. “Effeminate” is a new one, though I have been accused of being a woman before…and gay men seem to keep wanting to date me for some reason. I loathe them. No I am not a woman.
I’m not going to perpetuate **ANY** histrionic, schizophrenic conspiracies about the council. It was very open. People knew what was going on. That’s not the issue. What was the issue was that it was influenced by a governmental figure. Before, people had to give up governmental titles to join the Church. Now we had literal secular influence in the Church due to an emperor, Constantine, gathering the council and approving its decisions. And then the bishop of Rome slowly but surely took up titles that aligned with the head of the Roman college of pontiffs. It’s not to say it was an immediate downfall, but a slow and gradual one; mostly because of pride which always comes before destruction. The bishops got political power and they were also influenced by it in turn.
I too have attended a Latin Mass. It was a pretty average meeting. I understand the appeal of some types…but it’s very much the case there are still many things lacking. I am not entirely against the aesthetics. I think people get too hung up over it and view it as based and cool…but, the issue is; the church is a gathering that can be so small that technically 3 people are enough to form it. It didn’t start out grand and opulent—it actually started small, undergound, and oppressed—and its very clear that there was an insidious infiltration going on. Especially since they denounced Origen by misinterpreting the man…funny enough, the one who did it was the husband of some random whore…