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devotech2 on scored.co
1 year ago1 point(+0/-0/+1Score on mirror)1 child
I have family on both sides of this
A large part of my family actually is eastern diaspora German, parts moved long before ww2 and my great grandfather moved afterwards, and as a member of the Waffen SS, he was part of the expulsions. The death rape campaigns were horrible, the expulsions were horrible, but stalin was motivated by two things alone: what you already said, and his obsession with ancient borders and people. It's why Estonian germans are gone, it's why Lwow is Lviv (it was part of Galicia in the 1200s before it was polish, that was good enough for Stalin), its why there are no more Ukrainians in Poland and why there's no more Poles in the Ukraine, it's why central Asian cossacks in the Ukraine are virtually extinct, and furthermore. But the long term extent of this was really whites being replaced by other whites, and slavs even benefited from it, so it didn't do much overall for the ongoing white genocide. Stalin was absolutely a racial ideologue and the popular conception that race was not of concern in the USSR is incredibly false. To that end, after the war, the soviets did not hold germans in open air death camps, and to their credit, the ussr actually *released* most German POWs from gulag imprisonment. The allies just starved them to death in a fenced off field. Death rape and expulsion was about the extent of what soviet occupied germans got, and it was mostly confined to the actual siege. The allied areas got fire bombings (actually this was all of Germany), death rape, and death camps.
In contrast, the allies quite literally actually just wanted to kill everyone. The death rape also happened in western Germany too, it's just not talked about as much, and it was just as extensive, and with absolutely no excuse whatsoever. My great uncle was an American soldier, forward artillery observer under Patton's command during the push into Germany, injured himself on purpose after surviving the war for quite long time to get flown back home because of the shit the allies were doing in the west. Thankfully, he wasn't *ordered* to do anything heinous, because he was under Patton's command, and Patton was an honorable man, but the propaganda that portrayed the German people as animals made many of the common American soldiers and officers actually treat them as animals. Under eisenhower's command, many of the people involved were *forced* to do these things, because Eisenhower wished to exterminate the German people and that was simply it. Regardless of if his soldiers wanted to or not.
1 year ago2 points(+0/-0/+2Score on mirror)1 child
That does line up with the research and midcentury wars videos I've been watching. The racial hatred part against the Germans was downplayed in much of it. One big motivation besides that was to remove Germany from ever becoming a world power that could compete with the United States, Britian or the Soviet Union. Britain was spent and tossed aside after the war, then everyone had to give up their colonial holdings, leaving just the US and the Soviets the sole powers of global scale.
Germany was kept in the end as an experiment to see what the best control mechanism was on a small scale. Capitalist Jewry or Bolshevik Jewry.
I 'guess' I'm lucky both of my grandfather's fought in the Pacific, but I imagine that was the result of them both being German speaking Americans for the most part.
1 year ago2 points(+0/-0/+2Score on mirror)1 child
My (American) great grandfather, his brother, was in the pacific in the navy during ww2 as well. Ironically that part of my family is also baltic german, just further back, and even after English admixture, still retain facial features from that region, myself included. I know a lot about what happened because it's what drove my own people to near extinction besides our diaspora.
Considering such, I'm less angry at the soviets for the rage of the soldiers of their armies and stalin's border autism than I am at the allies for allowing it to happen, encouraging it, actively helping it by blitzing cities, and doing the exact same thing, with an even higher death count, in western Germany. And then being portrayed as the more moral party. Despite Zhukov himself being a character of far greater morals and opinions towards occupied germans than Eisenhower, Arthur Harris, FDR, Churchill, the entire lot of snakes. Just an ideologue of the wrong ideology.
The only good general staff officer involved on the part of the western allies was Patton, for reasons probably already known.
One can argue the war was started by all the ally embargoes and the lend lease plan helping to build up the Soviets into a mountainous threat. I've also learned more from arguing with one autistic Russian nationalist than I ever will from the many know nothing American GenX and Boomers.
A large part of my family actually is eastern diaspora German, parts moved long before ww2 and my great grandfather moved afterwards, and as a member of the Waffen SS, he was part of the expulsions. The death rape campaigns were horrible, the expulsions were horrible, but stalin was motivated by two things alone: what you already said, and his obsession with ancient borders and people. It's why Estonian germans are gone, it's why Lwow is Lviv (it was part of Galicia in the 1200s before it was polish, that was good enough for Stalin), its why there are no more Ukrainians in Poland and why there's no more Poles in the Ukraine, it's why central Asian cossacks in the Ukraine are virtually extinct, and furthermore. But the long term extent of this was really whites being replaced by other whites, and slavs even benefited from it, so it didn't do much overall for the ongoing white genocide. Stalin was absolutely a racial ideologue and the popular conception that race was not of concern in the USSR is incredibly false. To that end, after the war, the soviets did not hold germans in open air death camps, and to their credit, the ussr actually *released* most German POWs from gulag imprisonment. The allies just starved them to death in a fenced off field. Death rape and expulsion was about the extent of what soviet occupied germans got, and it was mostly confined to the actual siege. The allied areas got fire bombings (actually this was all of Germany), death rape, and death camps.
In contrast, the allies quite literally actually just wanted to kill everyone. The death rape also happened in western Germany too, it's just not talked about as much, and it was just as extensive, and with absolutely no excuse whatsoever. My great uncle was an American soldier, forward artillery observer under Patton's command during the push into Germany, injured himself on purpose after surviving the war for quite long time to get flown back home because of the shit the allies were doing in the west. Thankfully, he wasn't *ordered* to do anything heinous, because he was under Patton's command, and Patton was an honorable man, but the propaganda that portrayed the German people as animals made many of the common American soldiers and officers actually treat them as animals. Under eisenhower's command, many of the people involved were *forced* to do these things, because Eisenhower wished to exterminate the German people and that was simply it. Regardless of if his soldiers wanted to or not.
Germany was kept in the end as an experiment to see what the best control mechanism was on a small scale. Capitalist Jewry or Bolshevik Jewry.
I 'guess' I'm lucky both of my grandfather's fought in the Pacific, but I imagine that was the result of them both being German speaking Americans for the most part.
Considering such, I'm less angry at the soviets for the rage of the soldiers of their armies and stalin's border autism than I am at the allies for allowing it to happen, encouraging it, actively helping it by blitzing cities, and doing the exact same thing, with an even higher death count, in western Germany. And then being portrayed as the more moral party. Despite Zhukov himself being a character of far greater morals and opinions towards occupied germans than Eisenhower, Arthur Harris, FDR, Churchill, the entire lot of snakes. Just an ideologue of the wrong ideology.
The only good general staff officer involved on the part of the western allies was Patton, for reasons probably already known.