This post is for anything related to the topic of sedevacantism: https://infogalactic.com/info/Sedevacantism
And then more specifically:
I think it was a year ago that the last known Pius XII era bishop died. In one sedevacantist interpretation, this means the episcopacy has gone vacant and that only a miracle could restore it (unlikely) or that the world is to end sometime soon. Others hold out hope some other person was consecrated and the lineage continues (I tend more towards this view, as some things don't seem all together yet for the world to end). If you have to be 35 to become a bishop, and Pius XII died in 1958 (it's been over 60 years), they'd have to be pushing 100 at this point if they were still alive. Which means that within the next few decades, some definitive answer seems to be forthcoming about sedevacantism and the status of Vatican 2.
The situation reminds me of the Babylonian Captivity which I thought lasted 70 years, a number we'll be soon approaching if sedevacantism were true: https://infogalactic.com/info/Babylonian_captivity
The Jews skipped honoring the Sabbath year for almost 500 years, so God allowed them to be exiled for 70 years, one year for each seventh year the Sabbath year wasn't observed (I'm not sure on the exact math or story, but it's something like this): https://infogalactic.com/info/Shmita
So too it seems Catholics have been deprived of an organized Church because of the increase of sins, or perhaps as a trial to test faith. Some have wavered in this trial and become orthodox in response, or atheist, etc.
And of course the Western Schism, which lasted 40 years, also comes to mind: https://infogalactic.com/info/Western_schism
That the Church is being pushed to an extreme does not surprise me given some of the open sin I see. Although personally I do not like the current culture of sports today as they sometimes promote irreligion or a worldly spirit, I witnessed or participated in many games that came down to scoring points right before the time ran out. So you couldn't expect to win or lose until there was no time left on the clock, even if you might be winning or losing by a lot of points the whole game. So likewise today I expect the Church will be pushed to a limit and look like it is "impossibly losing" and God will then aid it as it comes up to that limit. Possibly we are close to hitting that limit here within the next however many years, given some of the aforementioned constraints.
At some point with the Vatican, they will have to further cross the Rubicon and promote more open and direct heresy (rather than ambiguous heresies) to continue with the Vatican 2 project. One non-sedevacantist site notes Francis has already openly embraced the heresies of Lutheranism (they seem to correctly diagnose the problem without accepting the conclusion of sedevacantism that seems to follow): https://onepeterfive.com/recant-lutheran-heresy-francis/
> [Francis:] Nowadays, Lutherans and Catholics, and all Protestants, are in agreement on the doctrine of justification: on this very important point he was not mistaken
Luther believed man was justified by "faith alone", while Catholics believe that a man was justified by "faith and good works". Hence his statement is erroneous and supportive of the Lutheran heresy, from the Catholic view.
Apparently according to a recent (2017) poll, even many protestants seem to believe in this traditional Catholic view that faith and good works are necessary to salvation: https://www.americamagazine.org/faith/2017/08/31/poll-most-protestants-and-catholics-believe-faith-and-works-are-necessary
(As an aside, in practice, it seems certain Lutherans I've seen simply seem to conclude that those with "bad works" lack faith. So that actually faith and works go together anyway. So that the dispute is frequently more in the realm of philosophy and intellectual disagreement - not to trivialize the seriousness of the disagreement, though.)
The successor to Francis, and his successor, if these end up existing, will be interesting to see, and also people's reaction to the death of "Benedict XVI" (whom some people believe is "pope" still). Or the course will redirect to revert back to pre-Vatican 2 norms. Or a "breakaway" conclave might spring up from Pius XII era bishops, if they still somehow exist, which will give a true traditional pope. Probably God has in mind some interesting way to end this drama, although we can guess at what will happen because there are only so many likely possibilities of what can happen. But we can only either study to try to figure out if there is some human way to put an end to the Crisis (such as educating others about what has happened), or pray that God may intervene to end the Crisis.
What do you think will happen in the next few decades with what claims to be or is "Catholicism"?
And then more specifically:
I think it was a year ago that the last known Pius XII era bishop died. In one sedevacantist interpretation, this means the episcopacy has gone vacant and that only a miracle could restore it (unlikely) or that the world is to end sometime soon. Others hold out hope some other person was consecrated and the lineage continues (I tend more towards this view, as some things don't seem all together yet for the world to end). If you have to be 35 to become a bishop, and Pius XII died in 1958 (it's been over 60 years), they'd have to be pushing 100 at this point if they were still alive. Which means that within the next few decades, some definitive answer seems to be forthcoming about sedevacantism and the status of Vatican 2.
The situation reminds me of the Babylonian Captivity which I thought lasted 70 years, a number we'll be soon approaching if sedevacantism were true: https://infogalactic.com/info/Babylonian_captivity
The Jews skipped honoring the Sabbath year for almost 500 years, so God allowed them to be exiled for 70 years, one year for each seventh year the Sabbath year wasn't observed (I'm not sure on the exact math or story, but it's something like this): https://infogalactic.com/info/Shmita
So too it seems Catholics have been deprived of an organized Church because of the increase of sins, or perhaps as a trial to test faith. Some have wavered in this trial and become orthodox in response, or atheist, etc.
And of course the Western Schism, which lasted 40 years, also comes to mind: https://infogalactic.com/info/Western_schism
That the Church is being pushed to an extreme does not surprise me given some of the open sin I see. Although personally I do not like the current culture of sports today as they sometimes promote irreligion or a worldly spirit, I witnessed or participated in many games that came down to scoring points right before the time ran out. So you couldn't expect to win or lose until there was no time left on the clock, even if you might be winning or losing by a lot of points the whole game. So likewise today I expect the Church will be pushed to a limit and look like it is "impossibly losing" and God will then aid it as it comes up to that limit. Possibly we are close to hitting that limit here within the next however many years, given some of the aforementioned constraints.
At some point with the Vatican, they will have to further cross the Rubicon and promote more open and direct heresy (rather than ambiguous heresies) to continue with the Vatican 2 project. One non-sedevacantist site notes Francis has already openly embraced the heresies of Lutheranism (they seem to correctly diagnose the problem without accepting the conclusion of sedevacantism that seems to follow): https://onepeterfive.com/recant-lutheran-heresy-francis/
> [Francis:] Nowadays, Lutherans and Catholics, and all Protestants, are in agreement on the doctrine of justification: on this very important point he was not mistaken
Luther believed man was justified by "faith alone", while Catholics believe that a man was justified by "faith and good works". Hence his statement is erroneous and supportive of the Lutheran heresy, from the Catholic view.
Apparently according to a recent (2017) poll, even many protestants seem to believe in this traditional Catholic view that faith and good works are necessary to salvation: https://www.americamagazine.org/faith/2017/08/31/poll-most-protestants-and-catholics-believe-faith-and-works-are-necessary
(As an aside, in practice, it seems certain Lutherans I've seen simply seem to conclude that those with "bad works" lack faith. So that actually faith and works go together anyway. So that the dispute is frequently more in the realm of philosophy and intellectual disagreement - not to trivialize the seriousness of the disagreement, though.)
The successor to Francis, and his successor, if these end up existing, will be interesting to see, and also people's reaction to the death of "Benedict XVI" (whom some people believe is "pope" still). Or the course will redirect to revert back to pre-Vatican 2 norms. Or a "breakaway" conclave might spring up from Pius XII era bishops, if they still somehow exist, which will give a true traditional pope. Probably God has in mind some interesting way to end this drama, although we can guess at what will happen because there are only so many likely possibilities of what can happen. But we can only either study to try to figure out if there is some human way to put an end to the Crisis (such as educating others about what has happened), or pray that God may intervene to end the Crisis.
What do you think will happen in the next few decades with what claims to be or is "Catholicism"?
ok we're somewhat on the same page, are you aware of what the sedevacantist view is? basically with vatican 2, it's believed those teachings are not catholic, so then no one believing them can be pope. so almost all bishops and priests accepted the changes, taking churches away from Catholics. my view is there are no catholic churches known anywhere. they all took this "upgrade" which is not catholic. a few people got bishops to make them bishops but outside of the normal rules, so they're bishops but we argue not Catholic bishops. so they can't and didn't elect a pope, and they set up churches but have no authority to do so, so my view is they should be avoided. and the churches in league with the current vatican don't believe in traditional catholicism so they should also be avoided.
however some of us think God preserved a few bishops somewhere who can keep the Church going. But they've never presented themselves to the public so some people doubt they exist. This leaves Catholicism not dead (it can't die) but as if dead. So some of us are continuing to try to think if there's a way out of this, or are praying for God to act to fix things.
yeah, I've known "catholic" priests and seen things first hand. it doesn't seem Catholic to me anymore. Because I also saw how things were before Vatican 2 and it seems very different. I am confident somehow God will bridge the gap between what was to the future, but I am not sure how we get there and where we are at in the present exactly. Some people think things are hopeless and end times is the only solution. but I am not sure of that, I could see God turning some things around.
there's still a lot people can do, even while we don't know what to do with this. like pray, fast, work, help people, be a good person, study, and so on.