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76
“Science” (media.scored.co)
posted 12 days ago by MLJFireDragon747 on scored.co (+0 / -0 / +76Score on mirror )
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whatlike_withacloth on scored.co
11 days ago 5 points (+0 / -0 / +5Score on mirror ) 2 children
Let me preface this with my stance that I believe universal circumcision is wrong (generally it's unnecessary), I didn't circumcise my son, and I disagree with the conclusion of the article. But I'm going to critique your response:

This isn't enough. Being forced through an 5" canal with an 8" head is also pretty traumatic (babies aren't quiet when they pop out), so "the baby shows a trauma response" isn't a counter argument to what they posit here. Of course circumcision is painful, and pain is one of the best forms of getting a message to a brain.

They're saying *the benefits outweigh the risks.* So sure, your baby might have trauma, but the benefits outweigh that. Just like the benefits of vaginal birth are worth the suffering the baby and the mother endure. If you don't agree, C-sections are an option to deliver the baby in the least traumatic way we can muster (mom takes it pretty hard either way).

So you need to argue that the benefits don't outweigh the risks. What are the benefits of circumcision? It lowers your risks of bacterial infections and venereal diseases, two things fairly-easily mitigated by hygienic self care and sexual practices. However, all things being equal, the uncircumcised penis haver is more likely to have those outcomes. In cases of good hygiene, I speculate the difference is negligible. In summation, fairly mild (but more likely) benefits from circumcision.

So what are the risks of circumcision? Glans necrosis or over-circumcision, post-op infection, and from your study:

>Early-circumcised men reported lower attachment security and lower emotional stability while no differences in empathy or trust were found. Early circumcision was also associated with stronger sexual drive and less restricted socio-sexuality along with higher perceived stress and sensation seeking

So any STD-mitigation benefit from circumcising could actually be lost in the "stronger sexual drive and less restricted socio-sexuality" outcome. Though self-reported studies are notoriously unreliable, we'll use it anyway (many circumcised vs. not studies are contradictory or inconclusive anyway).

All that to say... it seems like a wash. And I'd like to read the article about how they came to the conclusion of "benefits outweigh the risks 200:1." I would guess that they're looking at even very minor things like "uncircumcised guys have smegma" which is pretty common (probably 100% over the entire life) but circumcised guys basically never have to deal with it so that's a "huge" benefit purely by the numbers of sufferers. Meanwhile one in 50,000 boys has part of their glans removed in circumcision, well that's 0.002% of all cases so numerically it's such a small number... but it's pretty fucking severe.

In conclusion - the severity of the risks of circumcision, though they may be less common, far outweigh the risks of not circumcising. I'm guessing the article came to their conclusion by equating the severity of a severed glans with a teenager having to wash his penis a little better than the uncircumcised guy.

[Oh I found the article:](https://bigthink.com/health/defying-science-american-parents-reject-male-circumcision/)

>A large reduction in urinary tract infections, which affect 1 in 12 circumcised males over their lifetime compared to 1 in 3 uncircumcised males.

>A large reduction in balantis — a painful, itchy, and potentially disfiguring swelling of the head of the penis — typically caused by fungal infection. The lifetime rate is 12% for uncircumcised men vs. 2% for circumcised men.

>A 15% to 50% lower risk of prostate cancer. Prostate cancer is the second leading cause of cancer death in U.S. men, killing 34,500 every year.

>An up to 70% lower rate of contracting HIV. (Though this was derived from studies conducted in Africa. The reduction in the U.S. is probably lower, potentially just 16%.)

>A 50% lower risk of contracting genital human papillomavirus.

>A greatly reduced risk of penile cancer (even though it is rare). The lifetime risk is approximately 1 in 1,000 for an uncircumcised man vs. 1 in 50,000 to 1 in 12,000,000 for a circumcised man.

>A reduced risk of giving female sex partners bacterial vaginal infections and sexually transmitted infections.

So yea, practice good hygiene and have safe sex (preferably monogamous sex, which greatly improves the safety factor), which you should do whether you're circumcised or not, and you've mitigated all but the most extreme risks of being uncircumcised. The article goes on:

>“If U.S. male circumcision rates among men born in the same year dropped to European rates (~10%), there would be an expected 12 percent increase in men infected with HIV (or 4,843); 29 percent more men infected with human papillomavirus (57,124); a 19 percent increase in men infected with herpes simplex virus (124,767); and a 211 percent jump in the number of infant male urinary tract infections (26,876). Among their female sex partners, there would be 50 percent more cases each of bacterial vaginosis (538,865) and trichomoniasis (64,585). The number of new infections with the high-risk form of human papillomavirus, which is closely linked to cervical cancer in women, would increase by 18 percent (33,148 more infections).”

Then why don't we see all those increases in the European populations that don't circumcise? Oh right, because the negroid population of Europe is around 2-3% vs. 14-15% of the US. Those are all nigger diseases. And of course with higher nigger prevalence comes more Whites denigrating themselves.

So I return to my bottom line, which is much in agreement with [this healthline conclusion.](https://www.healthline.com/health/mens-health/circumcised-vs-uncircumcised#takeaway)
WeedleTLiar on scored.co
11 days ago 8 points (+0 / -0 / +8Score on mirror ) 1 child
I'd like to add: most of the conditions that are less likely in the circumcised are extremely rare. A 50% reduction in a condition that occurs at a rate of 1 in 100,000 means a difference of 20 people in a population of 40mil. And that's if *everyone* gets an elective medical procedure.

To me, this smacks of vaccine logic. Let's "prevent" illness by treating every single person for diseases they don't have, and may never contract. But doctors aren't doing it for free, are they?
whatlike_withacloth on scored.co
11 days ago 4 points (+0 / -0 / +4Score on mirror ) 1 child
I usually make the appendicitis analogy:

>We could virtually eliminate appendicitis if we just performed appendectomies at 10 years old. Laparoscopic appendectomies are very safe after all... an outpatient procedure. Like getting wisdom teeth pulled.

Yea sure, but... I still have my wisdom teeth in my 40s. It's not for everyone. Preventative medicine is great and all, but when the conditions you're performing surgery to prevent are so mild, infrequent, and/or easily treatable... what's the point of surgery? Acute appendicitis affects genpop at a rate of ~10% - so way higher risk than any conditions that may arise from forgoing circumcision. Yet we're not handing out free appendectomies... why?
BlackPillBot on scored.co
11 days ago 1 point (+0 / -0 / +1Score on mirror )
Are you wiser for it? 😁
BeefyBelisarius on scored.co
11 days ago 7 points (+0 / -0 / +7Score on mirror ) 1 child
And never mind that the studies claiming benefits are generally done in 3rd world shitholes with poor access to clean water, soap, and condoms.
whatlike_withacloth on scored.co
11 days ago 2 points (+0 / -0 / +2Score on mirror ) 1 child
Yea the Big Truth author was somewhat transparent on that

>An up to 70% lower rate of contracting HIV. **(Though this was derived from studies conducted in Africa. The reduction in the U.S. is probably lower, potentially just 16%.)**

Again, with a disease that overwhelmingly affects niggers and faggots - simply not being a nigger or a faggot (or a niggerfaggot, long live Voat) makes the risk reduction completely negligible.
JoePutin on scored.co
11 days ago 1 point (+0 / -0 / +1Score on mirror )
And if one happens to be a niggerfaggot then no one really cares whether they get aids and die or not, so even with that demographic theres no benefit. Perhaps its even detrimental.
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