Destroy the Enlightenment
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> no
So people don't own things?
> Capitalism is private ownership over the means of production, that's all that it is.
What do you think "private ownership" means?
> Capitalism isn't private property
Now I'm really confused. You just said it's "private ownership"?
Do people own things or not under capitalism?
> Capitalism isn't even the market economy.
So people may or may not own things according to the principles of capitalism according to you, but no matter what, capitalism isn't the "market economy", whatever you mean by that. I won't bother trying to guess what you mean by "market economy", "market" or "economy".
> This also happened in america. After it happened in Europe.
I'm confused. What happened in America after it happened in Europe? Capitalism? Market economy?
> An anarchist state has never existed.
You say you live in the US but you don't believe anarchy is possible? I live every day without even thinking about what "the government" is doing. I protect my own property. I make my own food. I trade with people I want to trade with and I don't trade with people I don't want to. I literally have NO ONE telling me what to do or how to do it. If someone tried to I would just ignore them, the same way pretty much most Americans live their lives out in rural USA.
> Do you know what would happen if america became anarchic?
I don't have to wonder what would happen because I am living it right now.
> US government
You misunderstand the entire principle of the US government.
When the founding fathers got together to form a new government, after the Articles of Confederation were failing, they had a few goals in mind. One of those goals was to increase the ability of the government to do the one thing it can do better than a bunch of people operating independently, and that is to wage war and keep Europeans off of our soil. The other goal was to keep it out of the way of everything else.
The way they created such a government was by carefully erecting a system of competing interests such that anyone who thought they could use government to enrich themselves would be forever entangled in a morass of conflicts of interests until the end of time. In other words, people who get into government end up spending their lives dealing with government, while the rest of us don't care what they are doing.
We live in anarchy, and they spend all their time pretending to care about us, all the while the only time they can get anything done is when they get to bomb Europe back to the stone age.
And that's the way we wanted it from the beginning.
*over the means of production*, brother can you read? Do you know what the "means of production" are? The "means of production" is not property or land.
>market economy
Capitalism is the private ownership of the *means of production*. Look up "market socialism" which is state ownership of the means of production within a market economy. That's what China does, that's more or less what Germany and Italy did. It works, really well. It isn't capitalism. The "market" is not intrinsically tied to capitalism. The market economy is simply where decisions regarding production and investment are based on supply and demand.
>I'm confused. What happened in America after it happened in Europe? Capitalism? Market economy?
Large scale industrialization and the economic and social upheaval that came with it. Literally one of the main factors behind the civil war.
>The other goal was to keep it out of the way of everything else.
That's the reason why Shay's rebellion happened wasn't it? That's the reason why the government levied taxes higher than the British did immediately, wasn't it?
Also, the authority of the indvidual state government was greater back then. Which means it was no more anarchic than America today.
>government to enrich themselves would be forever entangled in a morass of conflicts of interests until the end of time.
And the exact opposite is what we see today
>We live in anarchy
No. You live in a state with a government that is under the control of the federal government. Stop paying your taxes and you'll see how much of an anarchy you live under
>all the while the only time they can get anything done is when they get to bomb Europe back to the stone age.
"Europe is the problem goy"
>And that's the way we wanted it from the beginning
The founding fathers would commit mass suicide or become the most loyal loyalists the king had ever seen if they could see what America became
OK, let me get this straight. You're trying to distinguish between the ownership of actual things from the things that are the "means of production". I don't see the difference, perhaps you can enlighten me.
Or let me be more direct.
You keep introducing made-up bullshit terms as if I'm supposed to understand what they mean, or as if they are common knowledge, when they are not. They are made-up bullshit terms that don't mean anything.
That's my assertion.
Now, you must show that I am wrong and DEMONSTRATE by defining, clearly, what "means of production", "market economy" etc... all mean.
As far as I can tell, you are a marxist who has no idea he is a marxist because you think everyone is marxist when in reality it is nonsense bullshit.
> it works really, really well
Define "well", or "good" for that matter. Then we can compare your definition with mine, and we can make OBJECTIVE judgments about whether China is "better" than the US or not in each of our moral systems.
Given that you are marxist, you have NO moral framework, and should never be using terms like "good", "well", "should" or anything like that.