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DeplorableGerman on scored.co
6 days ago0 points(+0/-0)1 child
i don't dislike Tolkien's work, i just wish folks would come up with their own completely unique works more often. then again it's hard to create a completely unique fictional setting without any outside inspiration or influence (not even TES does this).
Everything that you or I or anyone else associate with fantasy comes from Tolkien. Or from earlier source material, which is almost always linked to Tolkien anyways.
How far away from Tolkien can you get before it isn't fantasy anymore? Either it won't be western fantasy anymore, it'll be eastern fantasy, or it will be something that isn't fantasy at all. If you remove the magic, it's a medieval drama. If you make it about technology instead of magic, it's science fiction. Etc.
TES 3 morrowind is probably the furthest work of western fantasy from lotr that exists. Or actual slop like Harry Potter, which shares very little with Tolkien but suffers from it and is vapid.
On another note, the lore for the elder scrolls is actually incredibly diverged from Tolkien. The influence is there, it isn't *completely* original of course, but it's very unique in its own right.
Finding fantasy without Tolkien is like trying to find a dystopian novel without Orwell or Huxley. Or a metal band that isn't influenced by black sabbath. Or a western country that has 0 influence from Rome.
My point is that Tolkien invented every trope in that entire genre. If you diverge too far from his work, it won't even be recognizable as western fantasy anymore
i believe my (non)issue with this stems from reddit faggots crying about "derivative works" and "tropes" and "inspirations" as if these things are somehow bad. i guess i still had that stuck in my head for some Ungodly reason.
i have no issue with fiction being based on previous works and i've tried to create fiction with the explicit goal of straying as far away from tropes and previous works as possible and you are absolutely right; the result was still fiction, and it even made sense internally, but it was not recognizable as "western fantasy", or even "fantasy" at all.
I think that the key is less in trying to make something entirely different from Tolkien, which is virtually impossible, and more in making something that's within 2-3 degrees of separation from his source material. Which will provide you with a healthy deal of originality, but will still be traditional fantasy.
Even if you go off of preexisting source material that Tolkien did not like at all, like the Arthurian legends, it's still connected to lord of the rings anyways, because lord of the rings had some celtic aspects to it. Even if we go to something that Tolkien didn't use at all in any capacity, like roman, Greek, or Slavic myth, it's *still* connected to the lord of the rings no matter what. Because of the whole indo european mythology connection, which feeds into the lord of the rings by proxy as it fed off of anglo saxon and norse myth. Which is, itself, connected to Slavic and mediterannean myth by common ancestry.
There's no way out of the lord of the rings connection unless you base your setting on something that isn't european at all.
oh well, frosty spooders it is.
Tolkien *invented* western fantasy.
Everything that you or I or anyone else associate with fantasy comes from Tolkien. Or from earlier source material, which is almost always linked to Tolkien anyways.
How far away from Tolkien can you get before it isn't fantasy anymore? Either it won't be western fantasy anymore, it'll be eastern fantasy, or it will be something that isn't fantasy at all. If you remove the magic, it's a medieval drama. If you make it about technology instead of magic, it's science fiction. Etc.
TES 3 morrowind is probably the furthest work of western fantasy from lotr that exists. Or actual slop like Harry Potter, which shares very little with Tolkien but suffers from it and is vapid.
On another note, the lore for the elder scrolls is actually incredibly diverged from Tolkien. The influence is there, it isn't *completely* original of course, but it's very unique in its own right.
Finding fantasy without Tolkien is like trying to find a dystopian novel without Orwell or Huxley. Or a metal band that isn't influenced by black sabbath. Or a western country that has 0 influence from Rome.
My point is that Tolkien invented every trope in that entire genre. If you diverge too far from his work, it won't even be recognizable as western fantasy anymore
i have no issue with fiction being based on previous works and i've tried to create fiction with the explicit goal of straying as far away from tropes and previous works as possible and you are absolutely right; the result was still fiction, and it even made sense internally, but it was not recognizable as "western fantasy", or even "fantasy" at all.
Even if you go off of preexisting source material that Tolkien did not like at all, like the Arthurian legends, it's still connected to lord of the rings anyways, because lord of the rings had some celtic aspects to it. Even if we go to something that Tolkien didn't use at all in any capacity, like roman, Greek, or Slavic myth, it's *still* connected to the lord of the rings no matter what. Because of the whole indo european mythology connection, which feeds into the lord of the rings by proxy as it fed off of anglo saxon and norse myth. Which is, itself, connected to Slavic and mediterannean myth by common ancestry.
There's no way out of the lord of the rings connection unless you base your setting on something that isn't european at all.