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devotech2 on scored.co
4 days ago4 points(+0/-0/+4Score on mirror)2 children
Media is throwing around the neonazi label, because of course they are.
Nevermind that falangism actually famously disagreed with fascism and national socialism, was to the left of both of those movements, and was probably the first "left-nationalist" movement ever. And, regarding francoist "falangism", it's effectively neoliberalism. Which is the ideology of the United States as of right now. No definition of falangism is remotely close to "neo nazism" or even national socialism.
No they're neonazis because... they oppose immigration and jews (and francoist falangism didnt even do that, like at all). And fought anarchist communists 90 years ago. No, we won't look into the actual philosophy of anything whatsoever.
If anyone is interested in what falangism is, I recommend looking at the work and life of Jose Antonio primo de Rivera. Really interesting man, the most standout individual of all 3rd positionist movements in my opinion. Imagine if you combined Adolf Hitler, Benito Mussolini, and Vladimir Lenin. That's him. Like Lenin because he was a socialist ideologue, revolutionary, and anti capitalist, like mussolini on his theories of class conflict, and like Adolf Hitler because he fucking hated jews. He sent such a rift through spain that Franco had to create a cult of personality around Rivera, his political enemy, and not himself, because of how popular Rivera actually was and how much people didn't give a fuck about Franco.
4 days ago4 points(+0/-0/+4Score on mirror)1 child
>Syndicalists
That's who the falangists were, actually. The national syndicalists. The syndicalists were the ones fighting the Republicans and communists.
All Franco really *did* was invite the conservatives and monarchists into the war (who *everyone*, and I mean the left and the right of almost the entirety of spain, despised), and after the war he killed off all the national syndicalists in the Falange. Neutering the party. But keeping the memory of Rivera alive for strictly political propaganda purposes. Similar to how the US government still touts the memory of Washington.
Franco wasn't a tyrant fascist at all. He was a dictorial Iberian Ronald Reagan who had no actual ideology beyond "grrrr commies and muh free market gdp". Hitler and Mussolini surmised that he was a fucking moron who didn't understand anything, and they were quite right in that assumption. Franco famously couldn't see the strategy of the molotov ribbentrop pact and became a vehement anti german for several years. To the point where hitler was very close to reinvading spain, and only decided against it because he didn't want a guerilla war (a guerilla war in spain was the same thing that started napoleons downfall, it's actually a really bad country to wage a war in)
Then the war ended and he let the cia and the US in general brow beat the fuck out of spain and turn it into a big military colony for the US navy. Spains progress stalled during the 30s to the late 50s and after the 60s and early 70s, and spain trudged behind the rest of Europe in almost every aspect because Franco mismanaged the country. He had no fucking clue what he was doing economically speaking. At first he tried a semi-planned mussolini-esque economy, didn't do it correctly at all, and almost starved the whole country to death. Then he got an absolute fuckload of money from the US and let the bankers of spain dictate the economy. So from the 60s to the 70s, he thought the free market would fix every single thing and the government didn't need to do anything. This worked until it didn't. Spain is still behind the rest of western Europe today economically because he fucked everything up.
On a positive note about him, I *guess* he won the war for the Falange, but they were already winning when he took over the party anyways. And his foreign policy (besides towards the US) was actually pretty damned good during the cold war, admittedly. He remained anti israel (somewhat shockingly to me), and kept spain out of useless wars.
4 days ago2 points(+0/-0/+2Score on mirror)1 child
>as cult of personality I never really saw it
His cult of personality was built around a dead dude who spain loved a whole lot more than him. It was there, just not around him, because he knew that he wasn't who Rivera was. But the cult around Rivera was enormous. There are some conspiracy theories around spain, particularly amongst the anti francoist falangist parties (they exist), that Franco let him die. I believe it. Rivera was anti-everything-Franco-was. Anti conservative, anti capitalist, anti reactionary, and anti monarchist. All things that Franco was.
>To me Franco just seemed like a timid short guy who managed to win his war and that’s it.
Precisely. But he was a schemer despite the fact. He took dictorial control over an entire nation by hijacking a party that consisted of his political enemies not even a decade prior, and purged the entire party under the noses of the whole country, and then held that party up on a pedestal for propaganda reasons. Almost like stalin did. Actually, exactly like stalin did. Although, stalin doing it was arguably a net positive because the alternative was Trotsky, who would have actually killed everyone in the ussr in a genocidal rage without giving a singular fuck about his neighbors at all.
Nevermind that falangism actually famously disagreed with fascism and national socialism, was to the left of both of those movements, and was probably the first "left-nationalist" movement ever. And, regarding francoist "falangism", it's effectively neoliberalism. Which is the ideology of the United States as of right now. No definition of falangism is remotely close to "neo nazism" or even national socialism.
No they're neonazis because... they oppose immigration and jews (and francoist falangism didnt even do that, like at all). And fought anarchist communists 90 years ago. No, we won't look into the actual philosophy of anything whatsoever.
If anyone is interested in what falangism is, I recommend looking at the work and life of Jose Antonio primo de Rivera. Really interesting man, the most standout individual of all 3rd positionist movements in my opinion. Imagine if you combined Adolf Hitler, Benito Mussolini, and Vladimir Lenin. That's him. Like Lenin because he was a socialist ideologue, revolutionary, and anti capitalist, like mussolini on his theories of class conflict, and like Adolf Hitler because he fucking hated jews. He sent such a rift through spain that Franco had to create a cult of personality around Rivera, his political enemy, and not himself, because of how popular Rivera actually was and how much people didn't give a fuck about Franco.
That's who the falangists were, actually. The national syndicalists. The syndicalists were the ones fighting the Republicans and communists.
All Franco really *did* was invite the conservatives and monarchists into the war (who *everyone*, and I mean the left and the right of almost the entirety of spain, despised), and after the war he killed off all the national syndicalists in the Falange. Neutering the party. But keeping the memory of Rivera alive for strictly political propaganda purposes. Similar to how the US government still touts the memory of Washington.
Franco wasn't a tyrant fascist at all. He was a dictorial Iberian Ronald Reagan who had no actual ideology beyond "grrrr commies and muh free market gdp". Hitler and Mussolini surmised that he was a fucking moron who didn't understand anything, and they were quite right in that assumption. Franco famously couldn't see the strategy of the molotov ribbentrop pact and became a vehement anti german for several years. To the point where hitler was very close to reinvading spain, and only decided against it because he didn't want a guerilla war (a guerilla war in spain was the same thing that started napoleons downfall, it's actually a really bad country to wage a war in)
Then the war ended and he let the cia and the US in general brow beat the fuck out of spain and turn it into a big military colony for the US navy. Spains progress stalled during the 30s to the late 50s and after the 60s and early 70s, and spain trudged behind the rest of Europe in almost every aspect because Franco mismanaged the country. He had no fucking clue what he was doing economically speaking. At first he tried a semi-planned mussolini-esque economy, didn't do it correctly at all, and almost starved the whole country to death. Then he got an absolute fuckload of money from the US and let the bankers of spain dictate the economy. So from the 60s to the 70s, he thought the free market would fix every single thing and the government didn't need to do anything. This worked until it didn't. Spain is still behind the rest of western Europe today economically because he fucked everything up.
On a positive note about him, I *guess* he won the war for the Falange, but they were already winning when he took over the party anyways. And his foreign policy (besides towards the US) was actually pretty damned good during the cold war, admittedly. He remained anti israel (somewhat shockingly to me), and kept spain out of useless wars.
His cult of personality was built around a dead dude who spain loved a whole lot more than him. It was there, just not around him, because he knew that he wasn't who Rivera was. But the cult around Rivera was enormous. There are some conspiracy theories around spain, particularly amongst the anti francoist falangist parties (they exist), that Franco let him die. I believe it. Rivera was anti-everything-Franco-was. Anti conservative, anti capitalist, anti reactionary, and anti monarchist. All things that Franco was.
>To me Franco just seemed like a timid short guy who managed to win his war and that’s it.
Precisely. But he was a schemer despite the fact. He took dictorial control over an entire nation by hijacking a party that consisted of his political enemies not even a decade prior, and purged the entire party under the noses of the whole country, and then held that party up on a pedestal for propaganda reasons. Almost like stalin did. Actually, exactly like stalin did. Although, stalin doing it was arguably a net positive because the alternative was Trotsky, who would have actually killed everyone in the ussr in a genocidal rage without giving a singular fuck about his neighbors at all.
Chapeau.