Revisiting Homoousios - Origins, Intentions, Aftermath - by Keegan Chandler [1.02.40]
https://www.bitchute.com/video/TnIJlOSt72rU/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q103aq1jwp0&pp=ygVLUmV2aXNpdGluZyBIb21vb3VzaW9zIC0gT3JpZ2lucywgSW50ZW50aW9ucywgQWZ0ZXJtYXRoIC0gYnkgS2VlZ2FuIENoYW5kbGVy.
trinities 247 - Kegan Chandler on the term "homoousios" - [1.00.24]
https://youtu.be/UEvZjJr4dUU
What does the Greek word Homoousios mean? What is the difference between Homoousios and Homoiousios? Why were these terms important in the development of Christian Theology and Christology?
mirrored from: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q103aq1jwp0&ab_channel=21stCenturyReformation
BACKGROUND "homoousios" NOT a matter of debate between Arius and his opponents. homoousios - It was well-known that Arius personally rejected it. - "homoousios" not widely used by proto-orthodox Christians homoousios - "homoousios" had already been rejected by the Council of Antioch in 268 CE
[PRE-NICENE OCCURRENCES OF HOMOOUSIOS POIMANDRES - 1 (Hermetic work) (1st century CE) Ptolemy - 1 (Gnostic) (100-170 CE) Irengeus - 5 (writing about the Gnostics) (130-202 CE) Hippolytus - 7 (writing about the Gnostics; two of no independent value) (170-235 CE) Clement - Excerpta - 5; Others - 2 (writing about the Gnostics; unclear usage) Origen - 6 at least (writing mostly about the Gnostics; or not used in orthodox Trinitarian sense) (184-254 CE) Plotinus - 2 (Neoplatonist) (3rd cent. CE) Porphyry - 3 (Neoplatonist) (3rd cent. CE) Dionysius of Alexandria - 1 (refers to other's non-orthodox usage) (190-265 CE) Synod of Antioch - 1 (Samosatene controversy; word rejected) (268 CE) Methodius - 3? (referring to other's usage; two rather doubtfully attested) (c. 300 CE) Pamphilus - 3? (referring to other's usage) (240-309 CE) Dialogue with Adamantius - 2 (one reference to Gnostic usage, one unclear use) (c. 300 CE) Acta Archelai - 1 (latin text, but greek word retained; doubtfully attested, used in argument against Gnostics) (3 CE) Eusebius - 2]
THE USE OF HOMOOUSIOS IN GNOSTICISM - Describes two different beings compounded of kindred substance - Used alongside notions of emanation - Had material connotations - "made of the same kind of stuff" (C. Stead). - pre-Christian
"POIMANDRES" (1st CENT, CE HERMETIC TEXT) "I am the Nous, the first God, who existed before the watery substance appeared out of the darkness. And the luminous Logos that issued from the Nous is the Son of God. "Understand that what sees and hears inside you is the Logos of the Lord, its Son, but the Nous is God the Father. And they are not divided one from the other for they are united by life. "For the Logos was of one-substance (homoousios) with the Nous."
WHY WAS HOMOOUSIOS WORTHY OF REJECTION TO EASTERN BISHOPS? In the fourth century, Arius connects Valentinian (Christian Gnostic) emanationism with the Manichaean (Gnostic) teaching that the offspring is "a homoousios portion" of the Father--implies God is material. The East was influenced by Origen's teaching that God's essence is immaterial 'from the Father' and 'homoousios' suggested to many that God is material, divisible, changeable. Word already banned by the respected Synod of Antioch (268 CE)
OPTIONS FOR HOW AND WHY "HOMOOUSIOS" FIRST APPEARED IN THE CREED A) "Tertullian's Tradition" the word was an Eastern reflection of Tertullian's Western tradition of "una substantia". It was agreed upon due to its being an established way of expressing the relationship between God and Jesus in catholic tradition. B) "Anti-Arius Maneuver" the word was chosen because it was theologically ambiguous and had no fixed meaning and would serve to expel Arius without forcing too strict a doctrine on the rest of the bishops. C) "Hosius' Strategy" the word was personally proposed by Hosius of Cordova, either on the grounds that it was an established tradition, or that it was ambiguous and would expel Arius. D) "Marcellus' Doctrine'" the word was chosen to deliberately represent the Monarchian modalist-type theology of Marcellus of Ancyra E) "Constantine's Background" the word first appeared due to a theological initiative from Constantine, who learned it from his pagan-Gnostic background.
OPTION A: "TERTULLIAN'S TRADITION" A) the word was only an Eastern reflection of Tertullian's Western theological tradition of "una substantia." It was agreed upon due to its being an established way of expressing the relationship between God and Jesus in catholic tradition. homoousios Evidence For: Tertullian said the Father and Son were "una substantia" in Latin. Evidence Against: When speaking of homoousios in Gnostic doctrine, Tertullian uses the latin "consubstantialis" or "consubstantivus." According to Eusebius, Nicaea used homoousios in an immaterial sense. The Gnostic history, and 268 CE condemnation of homoousios at the Council of Antioch.
OPTION B: "ANTI-ARIUS MANEUVER" B) the word was chosen because it was theologically ambiguous and had no fixed meaning and would serve to expel Arius without forcing too strict a doctrine on the rest of the bishops. "Evidence For: Athanasius, Eusebius, Marcellus, and others w/ different theologies could sign on. Evidence Against: Doesn't tell us where it came from... Eusebius explained away the language. Arius was known to have rejected it. hompousios Later rejected by councils as "confusing.”
OPTION C: "HOSIUS' STRAGEGY" C) the word was personally proposed by Hosius of Cordova, either on the grounds that it was an established tradition, or that it was ambiguous and would expel Arius. Evidence For: Hosius was important advisor & helped organize the council Philostorgius suggests that he plotted to implement the homoousian before the Council to force Arian rejection Evidence Against: Philostorgius' reference may have been short-hand The Philostorgius reference may not have been original homoóísios Hosius' worked to remove the word later
OPTION D: "MARCELLUS' DOCTRINE" D) the word was chosen to deliberately represent the Monarchian modalist-type theology of Marcellus of Ancyra Evidence For: The anathemas of the Nicene Creed appear to represent his theology. Evidence Against: Word not in his writings Theological vocabulary was in a state of flux, and Anti-Monarchians like Eusebius of C. signed the creed. Subsequent councils strongly rejected Marcellus Marcellus assisted in a new creed which removed the word
OPTION E: "CONSTANTINE'S BACKGROUND* E) the word first appeared due to a theological initiative from Constantine, who learned it from his pagan-Gnostic background. Evidence Against: Eusebius was a propagandist. | <3 Constantine! Evidence For: Eusebius says Constantine was the author
Agrees with Eusebius’ claim that Constantine had the term inserted at the council of Nicene.
Constantine cites Plato as justification, but it is actually hermetic, gnostic
CONSTANTINE TO THE ASSEMBLY: "[For] Plato himself... declared, with truth, a God exalted above every essence, but to him he added also a second, distinguishing them as two, though both possessing one perfection, and the being of the second deity proceeding from the first." - in Eusebius, The Oration of Emperor Constantine, 9.
LUCIUS LACTANTIUS (C. 230-325 dE -Religious advisor to Constantine. -An admirer of Hermeticism. -Looked to establish a theological relationship between Christianity and Hermeticism. -Enthusiastically quotes Poimandres 14 times. -Lactantius says, "Plato spoke about the first God and the second God," and then says that Plato was only following the teaches of Hermes.
FURTHER EVIDENCE FOR "E" - 311-315 CE: poems and inscriptions tell us Constantine's God is "the Divine Mind"_the name of the chief deity of Hermeticism. - The Asclepius was also known by Constantine through Lactantius - Another favorite adviser, Sopater of Apamea, dabbled in Hermeticism. -
326 CE: One year after the Council of Nicaea Constantine sent pagan mystic Nicagoras on a trip to the Egyptian Valley of the Kings- specifically The Syringes (the tunnels under the valley of the Kings). Nicagoras left an inscription in the tunnels claiming he was mimicking Plato’s (supposed) journey there.
"|... Nicagoras... investigated the tombs many lifetimes after the divine Plato from Athens, and I marveled and gave thanks to the gods and to the most devout emperor Constantine who made this possible for me." (IGLT 1265)
Inscription found in the tunnels where Constantine sent Nicagoras contains the word ‘homoousios’ in a similar form to that found in the Nicene creed -
"There was a unique Mind (Nous)... from him [came] the intelligent Logos... [the] eternally incorruptible Son, reflection of the intelligent Father, one with the Father. Distinct from the Father only by name, but one with the Father and one from one... HOMOOUSIOS, eternally incorruptible.. (Theosophia, 1).
CONSTANTINE'S THEOLOGY? * said his own doctrine agrees with the doctrine of the great Plato, who he said had taught the following sound sentiments with truth;
There are two gods, "distinguished numerically as two." Both possess "one perfection." * The "being of the second deity proceeded from the first." The second deity is the "obedient agent" of the first God. • The second deity, the Son and Logos, is also to be named "God."
God "has no origin, and therefore no beginning." The generation of the Son "was accompanied by no decrease of the Father's substance." Everything has a preceding cause, and "the Father is the cause of the Son" * The Son has an "eternal nature"
Eusebius said the Emperor explained the following in a speech that he gave to the bishops:
An ousia is not like a human body. The generated Son is not severed or divided from the Father. * The divine nature is: * Immaterial Intellectual/exists in a spiritual realm • Incorporeal/not in a body The Son pre-existed his birth in Mary, being generated "before all ages." The Son-Logos was immanent in God, and "potentially" with the Father. God had been eternally a Father in the sense that he had the potential to be a Father, as he has the potential to be "all things." It is wrong to say that there was a time when God became the Father of the Son because God is immutable and never changes. We should ultimately conceive of the Son's relationship to God in a "divine and ineffable manner."
(in an inexpressible way).
CONSTANTINE'S ACHEIVEMENT / NICAEA'S USEFUL MYSTERY - homoousios availed of its material connotations - said to be "divine and ineffable" - the bishops can force Arius out without constraining themselves theologically
The undefined aspect of the term ‘homoousios’ allowed for agreement between the various positions of the bishops and the pagan/gnostic position of Constantine, with the only immediate effect being the (generally desired effect of the) exclusion of Arius who had already disavowed the term.
The unforeseen results included an opened the door to the modalist type theology of Marcellus of Anchyra.
AFTERMATH Some Anti-Arians admit: "We were reduced to silence in order to preserve peace" (Eustathius in Theodoret, Church History, 1.8.3) Some Arians confess: "[We] subscribed to the heresy (Nicaea) from fear of you (Constantine)" (Eusebius of Nicomedia in Philostorgius, Church History, 2.7.-7b) - Both Arian and Anti-Arian bishops were uncomfortable with the word.
- Constantine was convinced that Christian doctrine could be interpreted through pagan theological forms.
- Eusebius went along with it
- Marcellus hated both the Arians and Eusebius He says they stole their doctrine from "Plato and Hermes" Stops short of directly criticizing 'homoousios
- Hosius stayed quiet until after Constantine and Eusebius died. Hosius returned with Marcellus and formulated a new creed, removing 'homoousios*
- The word remained a " 'stumbling block for all the people attending the council,' Arians and their opponents. For this reason, 'it soon disappeared' in the subsequent debates." - Elizabeth DePalma Digeser, "Platonism in the Palace" (2017), p. 50.
- Christians struggled with the term for decades before Emperor Theodosius cemented its place in Roman Law (c. 380 CE).
“It is still not clear how we are to interpret the word ‘homoousias’, nevertheless it is still the cornerstone of trinitarian orthodoxy today. The word ‘homooousias’ has remained, it is true, a bleeding wound in the midst of Christian confession, and one so far carefully covered over and ignored.”
Homoousios = “same essence” - “same substance” - “made of the same stuff”
Homoiousios = “of similar substance” - “made of similar stuff.”
https://www.bitchute.com/video/TnIJlOSt72rU/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q103aq1jwp0&pp=ygVLUmV2aXNpdGluZyBIb21vb3VzaW9zIC0gT3JpZ2lucywgSW50ZW50aW9ucywgQWZ0ZXJtYXRoIC0gYnkgS2VlZ2FuIENoYW5kbGVy.
trinities 247 - Kegan Chandler on the term "homoousios" - [1.00.24]
https://youtu.be/UEvZjJr4dUU
What does the Greek word Homoousios mean? What is the difference between Homoousios and Homoiousios? Why were these terms important in the development of Christian Theology and Christology?
mirrored from: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q103aq1jwp0&ab_channel=21stCenturyReformation
BACKGROUND "homoousios" NOT a matter of debate between Arius and his opponents. homoousios - It was well-known that Arius personally rejected it. - "homoousios" not widely used by proto-orthodox Christians homoousios - "homoousios" had already been rejected by the Council of Antioch in 268 CE
[PRE-NICENE OCCURRENCES OF HOMOOUSIOS POIMANDRES - 1 (Hermetic work) (1st century CE) Ptolemy - 1 (Gnostic) (100-170 CE) Irengeus - 5 (writing about the Gnostics) (130-202 CE) Hippolytus - 7 (writing about the Gnostics; two of no independent value) (170-235 CE) Clement - Excerpta - 5; Others - 2 (writing about the Gnostics; unclear usage) Origen - 6 at least (writing mostly about the Gnostics; or not used in orthodox Trinitarian sense) (184-254 CE) Plotinus - 2 (Neoplatonist) (3rd cent. CE) Porphyry - 3 (Neoplatonist) (3rd cent. CE) Dionysius of Alexandria - 1 (refers to other's non-orthodox usage) (190-265 CE) Synod of Antioch - 1 (Samosatene controversy; word rejected) (268 CE) Methodius - 3? (referring to other's usage; two rather doubtfully attested) (c. 300 CE) Pamphilus - 3? (referring to other's usage) (240-309 CE) Dialogue with Adamantius - 2 (one reference to Gnostic usage, one unclear use) (c. 300 CE) Acta Archelai - 1 (latin text, but greek word retained; doubtfully attested, used in argument against Gnostics) (3 CE) Eusebius - 2]
THE USE OF HOMOOUSIOS IN GNOSTICISM - Describes two different beings compounded of kindred substance - Used alongside notions of emanation - Had material connotations - "made of the same kind of stuff" (C. Stead). - pre-Christian
"POIMANDRES" (1st CENT, CE HERMETIC TEXT) "I am the Nous, the first God, who existed before the watery substance appeared out of the darkness. And the luminous Logos that issued from the Nous is the Son of God. "Understand that what sees and hears inside you is the Logos of the Lord, its Son, but the Nous is God the Father. And they are not divided one from the other for they are united by life. "For the Logos was of one-substance (homoousios) with the Nous."
WHY WAS HOMOOUSIOS WORTHY OF REJECTION TO EASTERN BISHOPS? In the fourth century, Arius connects Valentinian (Christian Gnostic) emanationism with the Manichaean (Gnostic) teaching that the offspring is "a homoousios portion" of the Father--implies God is material. The East was influenced by Origen's teaching that God's essence is immaterial 'from the Father' and 'homoousios' suggested to many that God is material, divisible, changeable. Word already banned by the respected Synod of Antioch (268 CE)
OPTIONS FOR HOW AND WHY "HOMOOUSIOS" FIRST APPEARED IN THE CREED A) "Tertullian's Tradition" the word was an Eastern reflection of Tertullian's Western tradition of "una substantia". It was agreed upon due to its being an established way of expressing the relationship between God and Jesus in catholic tradition. B) "Anti-Arius Maneuver" the word was chosen because it was theologically ambiguous and had no fixed meaning and would serve to expel Arius without forcing too strict a doctrine on the rest of the bishops. C) "Hosius' Strategy" the word was personally proposed by Hosius of Cordova, either on the grounds that it was an established tradition, or that it was ambiguous and would expel Arius. D) "Marcellus' Doctrine'" the word was chosen to deliberately represent the Monarchian modalist-type theology of Marcellus of Ancyra E) "Constantine's Background" the word first appeared due to a theological initiative from Constantine, who learned it from his pagan-Gnostic background.
OPTION A: "TERTULLIAN'S TRADITION" A) the word was only an Eastern reflection of Tertullian's Western theological tradition of "una substantia." It was agreed upon due to its being an established way of expressing the relationship between God and Jesus in catholic tradition. homoousios Evidence For: Tertullian said the Father and Son were "una substantia" in Latin. Evidence Against: When speaking of homoousios in Gnostic doctrine, Tertullian uses the latin "consubstantialis" or "consubstantivus." According to Eusebius, Nicaea used homoousios in an immaterial sense. The Gnostic history, and 268 CE condemnation of homoousios at the Council of Antioch.
OPTION B: "ANTI-ARIUS MANEUVER" B) the word was chosen because it was theologically ambiguous and had no fixed meaning and would serve to expel Arius without forcing too strict a doctrine on the rest of the bishops. "Evidence For: Athanasius, Eusebius, Marcellus, and others w/ different theologies could sign on. Evidence Against: Doesn't tell us where it came from... Eusebius explained away the language. Arius was known to have rejected it. hompousios Later rejected by councils as "confusing.”
OPTION C: "HOSIUS' STRAGEGY" C) the word was personally proposed by Hosius of Cordova, either on the grounds that it was an established tradition, or that it was ambiguous and would expel Arius. Evidence For: Hosius was important advisor & helped organize the council Philostorgius suggests that he plotted to implement the homoousian before the Council to force Arian rejection Evidence Against: Philostorgius' reference may have been short-hand The Philostorgius reference may not have been original homoóísios Hosius' worked to remove the word later
OPTION D: "MARCELLUS' DOCTRINE" D) the word was chosen to deliberately represent the Monarchian modalist-type theology of Marcellus of Ancyra Evidence For: The anathemas of the Nicene Creed appear to represent his theology. Evidence Against: Word not in his writings Theological vocabulary was in a state of flux, and Anti-Monarchians like Eusebius of C. signed the creed. Subsequent councils strongly rejected Marcellus Marcellus assisted in a new creed which removed the word
OPTION E: "CONSTANTINE'S BACKGROUND* E) the word first appeared due to a theological initiative from Constantine, who learned it from his pagan-Gnostic background. Evidence Against: Eusebius was a propagandist. | <3 Constantine! Evidence For: Eusebius says Constantine was the author
Agrees with Eusebius’ claim that Constantine had the term inserted at the council of Nicene.
Constantine cites Plato as justification, but it is actually hermetic, gnostic
CONSTANTINE TO THE ASSEMBLY: "[For] Plato himself... declared, with truth, a God exalted above every essence, but to him he added also a second, distinguishing them as two, though both possessing one perfection, and the being of the second deity proceeding from the first." - in Eusebius, The Oration of Emperor Constantine, 9.
LUCIUS LACTANTIUS (C. 230-325 dE -Religious advisor to Constantine. -An admirer of Hermeticism. -Looked to establish a theological relationship between Christianity and Hermeticism. -Enthusiastically quotes Poimandres 14 times. -Lactantius says, "Plato spoke about the first God and the second God," and then says that Plato was only following the teaches of Hermes.
FURTHER EVIDENCE FOR "E" - 311-315 CE: poems and inscriptions tell us Constantine's God is "the Divine Mind"_the name of the chief deity of Hermeticism. - The Asclepius was also known by Constantine through Lactantius - Another favorite adviser, Sopater of Apamea, dabbled in Hermeticism. -
326 CE: One year after the Council of Nicaea Constantine sent pagan mystic Nicagoras on a trip to the Egyptian Valley of the Kings- specifically The Syringes (the tunnels under the valley of the Kings). Nicagoras left an inscription in the tunnels claiming he was mimicking Plato’s (supposed) journey there.
"|... Nicagoras... investigated the tombs many lifetimes after the divine Plato from Athens, and I marveled and gave thanks to the gods and to the most devout emperor Constantine who made this possible for me." (IGLT 1265)
Inscription found in the tunnels where Constantine sent Nicagoras contains the word ‘homoousios’ in a similar form to that found in the Nicene creed -
"There was a unique Mind (Nous)... from him [came] the intelligent Logos... [the] eternally incorruptible Son, reflection of the intelligent Father, one with the Father. Distinct from the Father only by name, but one with the Father and one from one... HOMOOUSIOS, eternally incorruptible.. (Theosophia, 1).
CONSTANTINE'S THEOLOGY? * said his own doctrine agrees with the doctrine of the great Plato, who he said had taught the following sound sentiments with truth;
There are two gods, "distinguished numerically as two." Both possess "one perfection." * The "being of the second deity proceeded from the first." The second deity is the "obedient agent" of the first God. • The second deity, the Son and Logos, is also to be named "God."
God "has no origin, and therefore no beginning." The generation of the Son "was accompanied by no decrease of the Father's substance." Everything has a preceding cause, and "the Father is the cause of the Son" * The Son has an "eternal nature"
Eusebius said the Emperor explained the following in a speech that he gave to the bishops:
An ousia is not like a human body. The generated Son is not severed or divided from the Father. * The divine nature is: * Immaterial Intellectual/exists in a spiritual realm • Incorporeal/not in a body The Son pre-existed his birth in Mary, being generated "before all ages." The Son-Logos was immanent in God, and "potentially" with the Father. God had been eternally a Father in the sense that he had the potential to be a Father, as he has the potential to be "all things." It is wrong to say that there was a time when God became the Father of the Son because God is immutable and never changes. We should ultimately conceive of the Son's relationship to God in a "divine and ineffable manner."
(in an inexpressible way).
CONSTANTINE'S ACHEIVEMENT / NICAEA'S USEFUL MYSTERY - homoousios availed of its material connotations - said to be "divine and ineffable" - the bishops can force Arius out without constraining themselves theologically
The undefined aspect of the term ‘homoousios’ allowed for agreement between the various positions of the bishops and the pagan/gnostic position of Constantine, with the only immediate effect being the (generally desired effect of the) exclusion of Arius who had already disavowed the term.
The unforeseen results included an opened the door to the modalist type theology of Marcellus of Anchyra.
AFTERMATH Some Anti-Arians admit: "We were reduced to silence in order to preserve peace" (Eustathius in Theodoret, Church History, 1.8.3) Some Arians confess: "[We] subscribed to the heresy (Nicaea) from fear of you (Constantine)" (Eusebius of Nicomedia in Philostorgius, Church History, 2.7.-7b) - Both Arian and Anti-Arian bishops were uncomfortable with the word.
- Constantine was convinced that Christian doctrine could be interpreted through pagan theological forms.
- Eusebius went along with it
- Marcellus hated both the Arians and Eusebius He says they stole their doctrine from "Plato and Hermes" Stops short of directly criticizing 'homoousios
- Hosius stayed quiet until after Constantine and Eusebius died. Hosius returned with Marcellus and formulated a new creed, removing 'homoousios*
- The word remained a " 'stumbling block for all the people attending the council,' Arians and their opponents. For this reason, 'it soon disappeared' in the subsequent debates." - Elizabeth DePalma Digeser, "Platonism in the Palace" (2017), p. 50.
- Christians struggled with the term for decades before Emperor Theodosius cemented its place in Roman Law (c. 380 CE).
“It is still not clear how we are to interpret the word ‘homoousias’, nevertheless it is still the cornerstone of trinitarian orthodoxy today. The word ‘homooousias’ has remained, it is true, a bleeding wound in the midst of Christian confession, and one so far carefully covered over and ignored.”
Homoousios = “same essence” - “same substance” - “made of the same stuff”
Homoiousios = “of similar substance” - “made of similar stuff.”